Do most of our Trump supporters understand that they're supporting fascism?

It is absolutely correct, and attribution is written and copyrighted by Timmy O. Goodwin. Why do you assume if something is intelligent and/or intellectual it could not be written by anyone on this forum. Just because your intellectual compass is awash in the sea of idiocy doesn't mean we all are floating out to that idiotic sea on a raft full of moronic size holes.
Okay, that's great. It's rare anyone posts something that long they wrote themselves. It's still wrong though.

Take this paragraph from it:

Examples of democratic leaders who have navigated crises while maintaining these values abound. Franklin D. Roosevelt in the United States, for example, faced the Great Depression and World War II but consistently reinforced the nation’s democratic framework through policies that expanded social welfare without curtailing civil liberties. Similarly, Nelson Mandela, upon ending apartheid in South Africa, pursued a democratic vision focused on reconciliation and inclusion rather than vengeance or dominance. These leaders demonstrated that democratic principles could be maintained even in difficult times, using pluralism and the rule of law as sources of strength rather than treating diversity or dissent as weaknesses.

FDR didn't "...consistently reinforce the nation's democratic framework through...civil liberties." He did the exact opposite. With the New Deal, his initial try to get it passed was almost entirely shot down by the Supreme Court as unconstitutional. He first tried to pack the court, increasing justices to 13, but that failed. He then packed it with marginally qualified choices that would rubber stamp his ideas. That's how the New Deal came into being.
His wage and price controls led to the widespread introduction of health insurance by employers as a "pay in kind." That has resulted in the horrible system of payment for healthcare we have today. And, no, universal government run healthcare won't fix that.

Curtail civil liberties? FDR had something like 120,000 Japanese-Americans interned in camps by executive fiat at the beginning of WW 2. Their property was usually confiscated and resold. Some civil libertarian there...

Of course, FDR also let Churchill and to a greater extent Stalin, run roughshod over him in terms of the postwar world. FDR laid the groundwork and foundations of the Cold War.

Nelson Mandela was no better. His "democratic vision" has turned into the usual Socialist nightmare. Crime and poverty are way up in S. Africa. The government turns a blind eye to the murder of White farmers. Government confiscation of land is common. Whites are fleeing the country as it collapses into ruin just as they did in Zimbabwe and elsewhere as Leftist Black governments took control. HIs ideas and words aren't reflected in the reality of what S. Africa has become.

The road to Hell is paved with good intentions...

So don't sugar coat a turd here. Neither FDR nor Mandela were paragons of virtue. Both made serious mistakes that cost their nation in the long run.
 
Okay, that's great. It's rare anyone posts something that long they wrote themselves. It's still wrong though.

Take this paragraph from it:



FDR didn't "...consistently reinforce the nation's democratic framework through...civil liberties." He did the exact opposite. With the New Deal, his initial try to get it passed was almost entirely shot down by the Supreme Court as unconstitutional. He first tried to pack the court, increasing justices to 13, but that failed. He then packed it with marginally qualified choices that would rubber stamp his ideas. That's how the New Deal came into being.
His wage and price controls led to the widespread introduction of health insurance by employers as a "pay in kind." That has resulted in the horrible system of payment for healthcare we have today. And, no, universal government run healthcare won't fix that.

Curtail civil liberties? FDR had something like 120,000 Japanese-Americans interned in camps by executive fiat at the beginning of WW 2. Their property was usually confiscated and resold. Some civil libertarian there...

Of course, FDR also let Churchill and to a greater extent Stalin, run roughshod over him in terms of the postwar world. FDR laid the groundwork and foundations of the Cold War.

Nelson Mandela was no better. His "democratic vision" has turned into the usual Socialist nightmare. Crime and poverty are way up in S. Africa. The government turns a blind eye to the murder of White farmers. Government confiscation of land is common. Whites are fleeing the country as it collapses into ruin just as they did in Zimbabwe and elsewhere as Leftist Black governments took control. HIs ideas and words aren't reflected in the reality of what S. Africa has become.

The road to Hell is paved with good intentions...

So don't sugar coat a turd here. Neither FDR nor Mandela were paragons of virtue. Both made serious mistakes that cost their nation in the long run.
You're a social Neanderthal, TAG,
and far too many people like you
are the reason America can't even approach its potential as a nation.
 
You're a social Neanderthal, TAG,
and far too many people like you
are the reason America can't even approach its potential as a nation.
Ok, I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. I will ask you to please state your position on what political ideology you align with most and what do you see for Americas future politically, judicially, economically, socially, etc. and as far as constitutional liberties for all people in America and wanting to come to America are concerned. Bottom line what is your exact stance on how our nation should function as a what? A democracy, a theocracy, a plutocracy, a what?
 
You're a social Neanderthal, TAG,
and far too many people like you
are the reason America can't even approach its potential as a nation.
When you compare figures like FDR and Mandela to Donald Trump, the contrast is striking. FDR and Mandela weren’t perfect—each made difficult decisions that remain open to criticism, and they were both shaped by the intense pressures of their times. Yet they shared a common vision: to unify and uplift their countries, even in the face of overwhelming challenges. Their mistakes, though significant, were overshadowed by their lasting contributions to democracy, justice, and the well-being of their people. Trump’s tenure, by contrast, lacked this larger vision and reflected a pattern of decisions that often were rooted in personal gain and divisive rhetoric rather than a commitment to serving the broader public.

Take FDR. He led America through both the Great Depression and World War II, introducing the New Deal to support struggling families, create jobs, and lay the groundwork for social safety nets that Americans still rely on today. He encountered fierce resistance, particularly from the Supreme Court, which initially struck down parts of his agenda as unconstitutional. In response, he attempted to expand the Court to get his reforms through, a move criticized at the time. However, the intention was clear: his judicial appointments were aimed at creating a Court that would support economic relief and protections for ordinary Americans, not just to fulfill a personal agenda. Trump, in contrast, filled three Supreme Court seats with justices who shared his ideological leanings, including rushing through a last-minute appointment just weeks before an election. His appointments didn’t focus on addressing the country’s economic or social needs but instead solidified a conservative majority that has already moved to overturn critical rights, such as reproductive freedoms. FDR’s appointees ultimately enabled him to meet the needs of a suffering nation; Trump’s shifted the Court toward decisions that cater to a specific ideological base, often at the expense of broader public consensus.

FDR’s decision to intern Japanese-Americans during WWII is a well-documented failure, one I do not condone, nevertheless a product of wartime hysteria, racial prejudice, and a misguided view of national security. Following the attack on Pearl Harbor, fear and distrust pushed the government into detaining over 120,000 Japanese-Americans, many of them citizens, in internment camps. In hindsight, it’s clear this was a tragic violation of civil rights. Though FDR was a leader who expanded rights and protections for many Americans, this decision stands as a reminder of the dangers that fear and prejudice can pose to democratic values. Trump’s record, however, doesn’t just contain isolated incidents but a consistent pattern of actions undermining civil rights and stoking fear. From the Muslim travel ban to his open disregard for civil rights movements, his policies often targeted vulnerable communities. Rather than protecting or expanding civil liberties, Trump repeatedly marginalized groups based on race, nationality, and religion, not in a moment of intense national crisis but as part of a broader strategy to appeal to certain segments of his base. I am quite sure you are going to have a lot to say about that last remark.

Mandela, too, stands in stark contrast. Emerging from 27 years in prison, he could have easily sought revenge against a regime that had oppressed him and millions of other South Africans. Instead, he embraced reconciliation, guiding South Africa through its first democratic elections and working to heal deep racial wounds. Mandela’s commitment to inclusivity, democracy, and human rights was unwavering, and his leadership helped lay the groundwork for South Africa’s new era. While South Africa faces challenges today with crime and economic instability—realities shaped by decades of apartheid’s inequities—these are structural issues far beyond Mandela’s influence alone. In contrast, Trump’s record reflects a pattern of deepening divisions, exploiting existing social tensions for personal and political gain. Far from promoting unity or reconciliation, Trump’s rhetoric often inflamed racial and ideological divides, casting doubt on democratic institutions and even on the electoral process itself. Instead of fostering a spirit of unity, he encouraged discord, refusing to condemn white nationalism and often sidestepping moments when leadership demanded moral courage.

Finally, the ways these leaders approached national crises speak volumes. FDR and Mandela faced their respective crises with a commitment to protect and uplift their people, even when the paths were complicated and difficult. FDR’s New Deal reshaped American society, and Mandela’s presidency transformed South Africa’s future. Trump, however, fell short in his handling of the COVID-19 pandemic, repeatedly downplaying its severity, promoting misinformation, and politicizing public health measures. Where FDR and Mandela chose difficult paths to protect their nations, Trump’s approach prioritized short-term economic and political gains, with a response that left the nation more divided and cost countless lives.

In the end, FDR and Mandela, despite their flaws, worked to build something larger than themselves. They strove for a vision of democracy, justice, and unity, laying legacies that lifted millions and advanced the ideals of equality and compassion. Trump’s legacy, by contrast, is one of polarization, erosion of democratic norms, and a prioritization of personal interests over the collective good. While FDR and Mandela are remembered for striving to meet the needs of their times and often rising above personal flaws to serve the public, Trump’s record reflects a different story—one where self-interest and division took precedence over any unifying vision for the nation.

Ok, so go ahead and hit me with the sarcasm. I know you wanna. But with me water to a duck baby. Water to a duck. Bring it on.
 
Ok, I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. I will ask you to please state your position on what political ideology you align with most and what do you see for Americas future politically, judicially, economically, socially, etc. and as far as constitutional liberties for all people in America and wanting to come to America are concerned. Bottom line what is your exact stance on how our nation should function as a what? A democracy, a theocracy, a plutocracy, a what?
you're just long-winded, vague, full of glittering generalities, and awash with unexemplified abstract questionable assertions.

what you do is more a waste of energy than a skill.
:truestory:
 
you're just long-winded, vague, full of glittering generalities, and awash with unexemplified abstract questionable assertions.

what you do is more a waste of energy than a skill.
:truestory:
So, you can't answer the question then. What did I expect. Like in the song nothing from nothing leaves nothing.
vote-harris-2024-red-white-blue-face.jpg
 
They don't wish to talk about it.
Is the extent of their perversion becoming aware to them?

They don't know what fascism even is. They think fair taxes on the wealthy is fascism. They believe that, equal rights for all citizens even if they're gay/non-Xtian/don't speak English well/aren't white males are fascism. They're sure that the separation of church and state is fascist and also persecution, but only of Xtians. Mail-in and early voting are fascism. Vaccine requirements for school kids are fascism, but apparently not for military service members. The social safety net is definitely fascist. Public scorn for racist and other hate speech is fascist. Regulations protecting the environment are fascism.

I'm sure you can add your own.
 
Ok, I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. I will ask you to please state your position on what political ideology you align with most and what do you see for Americas future politically, judicially, economically, socially, etc. and as far as constitutional liberties for all people in America and wanting to come to America are concerned. Bottom line what is your exact stance on how our nation should function as a what? A democracy, a theocracy, a plutocracy, a what?
America, for now at least, has the largest economy in the world.
The US also has the most prohibitive military on the planet.

But what about the other side of the ledger?
For all of our wealth and power, we don't have a National Health Service,
or lacking that, not even a Medicare for All system.

With our wealth and power, that alone precludes us from being a modern great nation.

But that's not all. We also don't have the affordable education that other developed nations have.

We have an underregulated private sector. Our workers and consumers are not protected as they are in modern nations.
We don't even have mandatory paid vacation in America.
There's no place in Western Europe that doesn't mandate at least four weeks.

We have Wealth and Power.....yet we're the most socially regressive developed nation in the western world.

Our system of capitalism has resulted in a wealth distribution that's absolutely unconscionable.

Consumer goods--they belong in the capitalist system--nothing else.

Not healthcare, not any kind of insurance, not any kind of public utility or transportation.
They ALL belong in the public [not for profit] sector.


America, as a nation, and for all it's spectacular accomplishments, may be the biggest waste of potential in the history of our species.
Our resources are spectacular, but to this point, we haven't had the society capable of exploiting them.

Also, compared to other developed nations, we have the largest percentage of people crippled by inane religious superstition.
Our Constitution offers Freedom of Religion, basically a freedom to be insanely irrational,
when what we needed was freedom FROM religion.

Evangelical Christians in particular have been an anchor around America's neck as a drag on social progressiveness.
Multiple American woman have died since the SCOTUS Dobbs decision.
Those Justices responsible should be charged with and convicted of murder.

Also, America is not governed by ethnic Americans, its indigenous people.
It's run by the descendants of immigrants who were not invited here by the indigenous people.
Now, we choose to not give refuge to refugees as if we all suddenly became Native Americans ourselves.

I love America, mainly because I could not give up her food and creature comforts.
But America is seriously fucked up, and will remain so until Americans can be honest enough to admit it.
Worse, many of us us who DO see a need for adjustments think that MAGA Fascism is the answer.
That's an indictment of America's failure to prioritize education.
MAGAts are an intellectual black hole.
 
In recent discussions (not mentioning any names) within this forum, the term "fascism" has surfaced frequently, prompting questions about its precise meaning and relevance in today's political landscape. Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian ultranationalist ideology that emerged in early 20th-century Europe, notably under leaders like Benito Mussolini in Italy and Adolf Hitler in Germany. It is characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, strong regimentation of society and the economy, and often a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.

Understanding fascism's historical context and core principles is essential for informed discourse, especially when evaluating contemporary political figures and movements. This exploration aims to provide a comprehensive analysis of fascism's origins, defining features, and its manifestations across different eras. By examining historical examples and drawing parallels to modern political dynamics, we can better assess claims of fascist tendencies in current leadership and understand the implications for democratic values and institutions.

Fascism, as both a political ideology and a movement, has exerted a profound and devastating impact on modern history. It is defined by an authoritarian structure in which power is centralized under a charismatic leader or elite, who uses this power to reshape the state according to nationalist, ethnocentric, or exclusionary ideals. Fascism thrives on control, glorifying the state above the individual and dismissing or persecuting those considered "other" or nonconforming. Its leaders leverage collective anxieties to paint themselves as indispensable protectors of the nation, using fear and crises—often fabricated or exaggerated—as pretexts to erode democratic institutions, suppress dissent, and push forward militaristic and often xenophobic policies. Understanding fascism requires a close look at its origins, its defining features, and the devastating effects it has had in dismantling democracies around the world. Equally important is recognizing how these characteristics have re-emerged in contemporary politics, particularly in the United States under the leadership of Donald Trump.

Historically, fascism first took root in the post-World War I period, with Benito Mussolini establishing the first fascist government in Italy. Mussolini’s vision of a "reborn" Italy, glorifying past empires, resonated amid widespread economic and political instability. Fascism, as Mussolini defined it, rejected both socialism and liberal democracy, proposing instead a model where corporations, the military, and the state operated as one. The aim was to suppress class conflicts and political opposition by aligning all sectors under a single, authoritarian rule. Mussolini dismantled democratic institutions, stifled civil liberties, and elevated himself as the ultimate authority, appealing to Italian nationalism and a mythic past. Hitler’s Nazi regime in Germany, which intensified the racial purity and antisemitism inherent in fascism, took this framework further, implementing a violently exclusionary state. Hitler’s policies of racial supremacy led directly to the Holocaust, one of the most horrific acts of genocide in history, and the militarization of Germany fueled an aggressive expansionism that resulted in World War II. The fascist regimes of Italy and Germany, through total control of the state and an elimination of opposition, demonstrated how the authoritarian impulses of fascism can drive a society toward catastrophic destruction.

Key to the function of fascism is the identification and vilification of an enemy, often an ethnic, religious, or political minority, portrayed as a threat to the nation's purity and strength. This scapegoating process unites the populace by redirecting societal frustrations onto a common adversary, thereby legitimizing the repression of these groups. Under fascist regimes, freedom of speech is typically curtailed, with independent media either suppressed or co-opted into a propaganda apparatus. Fascist leaders exert control over information to prevent dissenting opinions and critical perspectives from reaching the public. This undermining of truth and intellectual freedom enables leaders to present themselves as the ultimate source of legitimacy and to maintain a narrative in which they alone stand between the nation and its collapse.

In contemporary politics, Donald Trump’s actions and rhetoric have often drawn strong parallels to fascist practices, particularly his attacks on democratic norms, his appeals to an exclusionary nationalism, and his repeated attempts to erode checks and balances. Trump’s presidency was marked by a divisive "America First" platform, which, while framed as patriotism, often carried undertones of exclusion and nativism. His rhetoric on immigrants and minority groups displayed a consistent pattern of scapegoating, from describing Mexican immigrants as "criminals and rapists" to implementing a ban on Muslim-majority countries, which he justified as a national security measure. This tactic aligns closely with the fascist approach of creating a unified identity by casting certain groups as outsiders or threats, thus fostering a sense of fear and grievance among his base.

One of the most striking examples of Trump’s alignment with fascist behavior was his consistent assault on the free press. Trump repeatedly referred to the media as the "enemy of the people," a phrase directly reminiscent of fascist language, where independent media is seen as a threat to state power and national unity. By delegitimizing the press, Trump created an environment in which only his narrative held legitimacy, effectively isolating his supporters from any information that contradicted his claims. This tactic mirrors how Mussolini and Hitler controlled information, positioning themselves as the ultimate arbiters of truth while delegitimizing any opposition as biased, treasonous, or corrupt.

Trump's disdain for democratic institutions became even more explicit during his attempts to undermine the legitimacy of the 2020 presidential election. Despite overwhelming evidence that the election was fair, Trump and his allies spread baseless claims of widespread voter fraud, encouraging his followers to view the results as a product of a vast conspiracy. His rhetoric around the "stolen" election was not only inflammatory but also dangerous, leading directly to the January 6 Capitol insurrection. During this violent attempt to overturn the democratic process, Trump urged his supporters to "fight like hell" and refrained from intervening as the situation escalated. This willingness to disrupt the democratic transition of power, coupled with his unfounded claims of election fraud, echoes the fascist impulse to undermine or completely circumvent electoral legitimacy in favor of a single leader's claim to authority.

Additionally, Trump’s response to racial justice protests, particularly in the wake of George Floyd's death, displayed a fascist-like approach to law enforcement and public dissent. Rather than engaging with the issues raised by the protests, Trump opted for an authoritarian crackdown, using federal officers in unmarked vehicles to arrest protestors in cities like Portland. His administration’s reaction—one focused on suppressing rather than addressing dissent—revealed a troubling comfort with using state violence against civilians, another hallmark of fascism. Trump’s approach to protest and dissent was to delegitimize it as a form of social decay, justifying the need for a strong, often militarized, response that favored “law and order” over civil liberties or constructive dialogue.

These examples reflect a broader pattern of Trump’s fascistic tendencies, from his scapegoating of vulnerable groups to his attacks on democratic institutions and his comfort with state violence. By leveraging fear, manipulating narratives, and undermining democratic processes, Trump’s actions paralleled those of fascist leaders who prioritized personal power and control over democratic principles and accountability. His disregard for the rule of law, particularly his attempts to manipulate the judiciary and obstruct investigations into his administration, further highlight his authoritarian inclinations. Trump's presidency thus illustrates how a leader who values personal loyalty and unchecked power over the integrity of democratic institutions can threaten the foundation of a free society.

In stark contrast, democratic governance is founded on principles of pluralism, accountability, and respect for individual rights. In a democracy, the government is accountable to the people, who have the right to participate in political processes and voice dissent. Democratic societies protect the freedom of the press, uphold the rule of law, and ensure that power is distributed among institutions to prevent any one individual or group from seizing control. Leaders in democratic countries do not cast themselves as ultimate authorities but instead are meant to act as representatives, bound by the limits of the law and the will of the people.

Examples of democratic leaders who have navigated crises while maintaining these values abound. Franklin D. Roosevelt in the United States, for example, faced the Great Depression and World War II but consistently reinforced the nation’s democratic framework through policies that expanded social welfare without curtailing civil liberties. Similarly, Nelson Mandela, upon ending apartheid in South Africa, pursued a democratic vision focused on reconciliation and inclusion rather than vengeance or dominance. These leaders demonstrated that democratic principles could be maintained even in difficult times, using pluralism and the rule of law as sources of strength rather than treating diversity or dissent as weaknesses.

On a global scale, democracy remains crucial for peace, cooperation, and the promotion of human rights. Organizations like the United Nations and the European Union, though imperfect, strive to foster democratic governance and uphold human rights as universal values. In a world facing transnational challenges—from climate change to economic inequality—democratic structures provide a framework for collaboration, allowing nations to address these issues through collective action rather than unilateral, authoritarian force. Democratic nations generally seek to resolve conflicts through diplomacy and uphold a global order based on mutual respect, principles that fascist ideologies inherently oppose.

The distinction between fascism and democracy is ultimately one of repression versus freedom, exclusion versus inclusion, and authoritarianism versus accountability. Fascism concentrates power, breeds division, and thrives on fear, while democracy disperses power, values diversity, and upholds individual rights. As history has shown, fascism’s impulse toward total control and the suppression of dissent inevitably leads to the degradation of society, while democracy—despite its challenges—remains the most effective defense against tyranny. The preservation of democracy depends on a society’s commitment to these values and its vigilance in recognizing and rejecting the authoritarian tendencies that, as recent years have shown, can threaten even the world’s most established democracies.

I hope this answers the question appropriately.
Copy and paste bullshit. You're a wing nut
 
It's just another Leftist who is telling you fascism is I know it when I see it. No logic or facts involved. The other version would be similar to that of the religiously devout believer, The mainstream media (or Leftist government) wrote it. I believe it. That ends it.

That is never the argument. Never. In fact everytime you hear the Left talking about Trump's fascism you hear it couched in the explicit terms that define fascism. "...ar-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition" (Wikipedia).

Trump literally ticks off just about every one of those except militarism. He seems to hold a special disdain for the Military. But he's also indicated a desire to utilize the military in service to his forcible suppressin of opposition.

If you can find pretty much ANYTHING in that list that doesn't match Trump please note it. And then explain how we all saw him do that very thing on live TV.
 
That is never the argument. Never. In fact everytime you hear the Left talking about Trump's fascism you hear it couched in the explicit terms that define fascism. "...ar-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition" (Wikipedia).

Trump literally ticks off just about every one of those except militarism. He seems to hold a special disdain for the Military. But he's also indicated a desire to utilize the military in service to his forcible suppressin of opposition.

If you can find pretty much ANYTHING in that list that doesn't match Trump please note it. And then explain how we all saw him do that very thing on live TV.
Gardner claims to have an MA in history. But he thinks "fascism" is to hard to understand.
 
That is never the argument. Never. In fact everytime you hear the Left talking about Trump's fascism you hear it couched in the explicit terms that define fascism. "...ar-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition" (Wikipedia).

Trump literally ticks off just about every one of those except militarism. He seems to hold a special disdain for the Military. But he's also indicated a desire to utilize the military in service to his forcible suppressin of opposition.

If you can find pretty much ANYTHING in that list that doesn't match Trump please note it. And then explain how we all saw him do that very thing on live TV.
Noted: All of it really doesn't apply to Trump other than if you cherry pick out of context.
 
I'm sure the folks in Waco thought David Koresh WAS Jesus.
I'm sure that the ATF didn't need the press present to serve a warrant on Koresh and could have easily done it when he was away from the compound on one of his frequent trips to Waco. But they chose to come in force and make a forced entry instead...

Typical fascist government types there.
 
I'm sure that the ATF didn't need the press present to serve a warrant on Koresh and could have easily done it when he was away from the compound on one of his frequent trips to Waco. But they chose to come in force and make a forced entry instead...

Typical fascist government types there.

Aaaaaand that's how we get Timothy McVeigh.
 
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