APP - double jeopardy questions

Yurt said:
that case does not change the facts that sovereignty is the issue...that case just dealth with applying DJ to teh states

this case is about the sovereigny issue and how even two states can try someone for the same crime...though rare, it can happen...but it does explain in greater detail the sovereignty exception to the DJ rule...and since we are talking about fed and state, it is all about the sovereignty issue

HEATH v. ALABAMA, 474 U.S. 82 (1985)

Held:



1. This Court will not decide whether the Alabama trial court had jurisdiction, where petitioner did not claim lack of jurisdiction in his petition to the Alabama Supreme Court but raised the claim for the first time in his petition to this Court. P. 87.

2. Under the dual sovereignty doctrine, successive prosecutions by two States for the same conduct are not barred by the Double Jeopardy Clause of the Fifth Amendment, and, hence, Alabama was not barred from trying petitioner. Pp. 87-93.

(a) The dual sovereignty doctrine provides that when a defendant in a single act violates the "peace and dignity" of two sovereigns by breaking the laws of each, he has committed two distinct "offences" for double jeopardy purposes. In applying the doctrine, the crucial determination is whether the two entities that seek successively to prosecute a defendant for the same course of conduct can be termed separate sovereigns. This determination turns on whether the prosecuting entities' powers to undertake criminal prosecutions derive from separate and independent sources. It has been uniformly held that the States are separate sovereigns with respect to the Federal Government because each State's power to prosecute derives from its inherent sovereignty, preserved to it by the Tenth Amendment, and not from the Federal Government. Given the distinct sources of their powers to try a defendant, the States are no less sovereign with respect to each other than they are with respect to the Federal Government. Pp. 87-91.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=search&court=US&case=/us/474/82.html
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well, i'm going to have to chalk this up to the supreme court making bad law on a bad case, because this still smacks of DJ.
 
SmarterThanYou said:
well, i'm going to have to chalk this up to the supreme court making bad law on a bad case, because this still smacks of DJ.
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so if someone rapes V in state X and the vehicle wherein the rape is occurring travels into state Y....you're saying only one state can charge him with rape? if so...which state gets to charge him?
 
Yurt said:
so if someone rapes V in state X and the vehicle wherein the rape is occurring travels into state Y....you're saying only one state can charge him with rape? if so...which state gets to charge him?
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since kidnapping was involved, it should be a federal case, not a state case, but this has gone past what my OP was discussing.

let's try this again, maybe a bit more detail will work.

Texas millionaires wife is shot and killed. State tries husband for the murder. Jury acquits. Feds say 'screw that' and try him for same murder in federal court.

is THAT double jeopardy?
 
UOTE=SmarterThanYou;737044]since kidnapping was involved, it should be a federal case, not a state case, but this has gone past what my OP was discussing.
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kidnapping and rape are state crimes, there is also a federal kidnapping crime, thus, they could be charged under both state and federal law...further, as to the rape alone....which state? as rape is a state crime.


let's try this again, maybe a bit more detail will work.

Texas millionaires wife is shot and killed. State tries husband for the murder. Jury acquits. Feds say 'screw that' and try him for same murder in federal court.

is THAT double jeopardy?
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he would have had to specifically violated a federal crime, and i don't see one there...did you read the case i gave you?
 
Yurt said:
kidnapping and rape are state crimes, there is also a federal kidnapping crime, thus, they could be charged under both state and federal law...further, as to the rape alone....which state? as rape is a state crime.

he would have had to specifically violated a federal crime, and i don't see one there...did you read the case i gave you?
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I did read it.

so let me make sure I have your position correct, that a person could kidnap a person, then rape that person in two different states, and then be tried for kidnapping and rape by 3 different courts?
 
SmarterThanYou said:
I did read it.

so let me make sure I have your position correct, that a person could kidnap a person, then rape that person in two different states, and then be tried for kidnapping and rape by 3 different courts?
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the rape only by the two states.....i'm not positive on the kidnapping, but i believe all three can try as the kidnapping crossed state lines
 
SmarterThanYou said:
and you don't see that as double jeopardy?
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it is double jeopardy...however, it is an exception to double jeapardy due to the sovereigns exception

for example, hearsay is not normally allowed to prove the truth of the matter asserted, however, there are approximately 20 hearsay exceptions which allow hearsay to prove the truth of the matter asserted
 
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