Dr. Doom Says Things Will Get Worse

I still think the stimulus was too small.

I hope you are right about the european economy. If we attack the need for finacial regulation they will surely be much happier to do business with us and bolster our economy.
 
Lowaicue said:
I'm not sure they have what you and I might understand by the term 'middle class'. Big cities have mega rich people and rural areas have their dirt poor. I think you have to have been going for quite a lot longer than modern China to have a true middle class. I guess its a bit like the gold rush days in your own country. Don't forget that the Chinese 'economic miracle' didnt get started until the early nineteen nineties. 1988 was when Deng Xiao Peng started to take the brakes off.
In HK an acceptable 'median' income for the 'employed' might be US$50-100k per annum. With investments and wheeling and dealing (almost everyone has at least one private company either trading or waiting for the opportunity to trade). Everyone I know, everyone, is playing the stock market and, obviously is extremely content with the way things are going at present.
Of course no one will tell you what they earn ... for tax (avoidance) reasons!!!
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cool beans, I've heard for a long time HK was blasting with business income and it's obvious from the high real estate that people are prob making more than they report.
How many millions in the Chineese cities would you guestimate are in the 100,000 category?
 
evince said:
I still think the stimulus was too small.

I hope you are right about the european economy. If we attack the need for finacial regulation they will surely be much happier to do business with us and bolster our economy.
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Obama is very smart, most of the stimulus money is to be spent next year. He'll have the economy rolling nicely come re-election time.
 
Obama wanted a larger stimulus and didnt get it.

Americans will start doing all kinds of micro businesses to survive. This will create a groundswell. I know we will recover because of the American people but the sooner the better.
 
Lowaicue said:
China, by the way, as a controlled economy, is not too heavy on exports or anything else. It has an objective. It will supply or not supply, raise the value of its currency or not according to its own requirements. It has no electorate to answer to, no elections to prepare for, no opposition political parties to derail its policies.
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Wow. Fascism is so cool.

Oh glorious day.

Totalitarianism gives you a boner. That's sick.
 
evince said:
Obama wanted a larger stimulus and didnt get it.

Americans will start doing all kinds of micro businesses to survive. This will create a groundswell. I know we will recover because of the American people but the sooner the better.
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Unlikely. Cap and trade will make energy too expensive for any businesses to prosper. Then we will be rounded up into fema camps. Whitey eliminated.

Is this the change you wanted?
 
Topspin said:
cool beans, I've heard for a long time HK was blasting with business income and it's obvious from the high real estate that people are prob making more than they report.
How many millions in the Chineese cities would you guestimate are in the 100,000 category?
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I would be lying if I said I knew. I shall be meeting with a couple of people during the next week or two, they both have factories in Guangdong province. I'll try to remember to ask. (I'd rather like to know myself). There is a lot of big posh cars, Ferraris, etc etc whereas on my first trip the only cars were Mercedes with right hand drive, stolen from the car parks of Hong Kong, sold to party cadres and shipped in super fast speedboats to the nearest bit of the mainland.
I remember on my second visit to China in 1986 being just a little gob smacked to meet and dine (at his expense) with the boss of a small engineering company in Fujian province. He had a Gold Credit card! and was permitted to travel freely both within China and outside as well. (Probably a good party member) but very rich (compared to me!!). That was when a gold card had little use in china because no one except international hotels would entertain them.
 
I'm very interested in the Chineese middle/upper class. They along with India are going to drive the margin of the oil business over the next decade.
 
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