Drone operator who helped kill 1,626 targets reveals trauma of watching them die


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Emotion laden rhetoric never solved any problem least of all how to combat the Taliban.

Drones best option to fight al-Qaida

Michael W. Lewis

Published 4:28 pm, Saturday, February 9, 2013

President Obama's second term begins amid intense criticism of the drone strikes being conducted by the United States in Pakistan. Much of this criticism is based on claims that drones are doing more harm than good. A recent Stanford/NYU study concluded that drones cause excessive civilian casualties and frequently fail to hit leadership targets, and that the presence of drones spreads fear and anxiety among the civilian population, disrupts civilians' daily lives, limits public gatherings and disrupts access to education.

Other critics cite the Taliban's detention and execution of suspected "spies" who assist drone targeting. Like many such studies, the NYU/Stanford one did not attempt to interview a single member of the U.S. military. Had it done so, it might have learned that (at least in Afghanistan) there have been instances of Taliban or al-Qaida forces killing civilians and placing their bodies at the site of drone attacks to increase civilian casualty counts.
Yet the study's only attempt to gain the government's perspective was a letter requesting a meeting with the National Security Council. Because the council did not reply within a month, the U.S. government's perspective was excluded from the report.

The report's discussion of civilian casualties adopts the highest estimate offered by any of the three sources that compile such information -- the Bureau of Investigative Journalism. And it consistently describes civilian casualties in the aggregate since the beginning of the drone program rather than examining recent trends. Even the bureau estimates that only seven civilians have been killed in about 60 strikes conducted over the last 13 months. These same strikes are estimated to have killed 250 to 400 militants. Any alternative use of force against Taliban or al-Qaida forces would be likely to cause many more civilian casualties.

Even if drones continue to cause some civilian casualties and have other negative effects, the question of whether continuing the drone campaign is a good policy decision cannot be answered without carefully considering the alternatives available. There are four obvious options for dealing with the Taliban/al-Qaida presence in the federally administered tribal areas of Pakistan.

One is to accept their presence and control of that area and cease operations against them. But this course of action wouldn't address most of the concerns about drones. Taliban control would be far more disruptive to the daily lives of those living in the tribal region than drones are.
Public meetings, unless authorized by the Taliban, would be rare and extremely dangerous. The Taliban's shooting of a 14-year-old girl for attending school speaks volumes about access to education under Taliban rule. And the detention and execution of undesirable individuals would continue, albeit under the guise of heresy rather than spying. Also, ceding the territory to Taliban control would provide the Afghan Taliban with a safe haven from which to continue its operations against American and Afghan forces across the border.

The second option would be for Pakistan's military to assert control over the region. However, its last serious attempt to do so -- the Swat Valley campaign of 2009 -- utilized armored vehicles, artillery and airstrikes to try to dislodge about 5,000 Taliban fighters. This resulted in the displacement of more than 1 million civilians who fled the army's indiscriminate firepower. Last year, mere rumors that the Pakistani military was planning a campaign in Waziristan caused thousands to flee. Pakistan lacks both the desire and the capacity to pursue another campaign to gain control of the tribal areas, and any attempt to conduct such a campaign would be a humanitarian nightmare for the civilians who live there.

The third option would be for the United States to use ground troops and special forces to conduct counterinsurgency operations in the tribal areas.
Even if Pakistan were willing to publicly consent to American ground forces on its territory, an issue that it has carefully finessed in the context of drone operations, it is unlikely that this option would alleviate any of the frequently voiced concerns about the use of drones.
If operations in Afghanistan are any guide, using ground troops would result in as many or more civilian casualties than the current drone campaign and would be more deeply unpopular in Pakistan -- not to mention that it would result in higher U.S. casualties. Ground operations in territory controlled by the Taliban would still rely heavily on drone surveillance, and most raids would occur at night. Such operations in Afghanistan were so unpopular and disruptive of daily life that President Hamid Karzai insisted that continued Afghan cooperation with the United States was contingent on Afghan control over night raids.

The final option is the continued use of drones. Even according to the least favorable numbers presented by the Bureau of Investigative Journalism, drones have effectively disrupted the leadership structure of the Taliban and al-Qaida in Pakistan by killing scores of senior leaders and operational commanders. And the drones' constant presence continues to deny the Taliban a safe haven in which it can train and organize its forces for operations in Afghanistan. Most important, drones have done this while consistently improving their accuracy and reducing civilian casualties. After examining the alternatives, it is clear that drones remain the best option available to minimize the negative effects of the conflict on civilians while continuing to disrupt the Taliban and deny it control of territory in the tribal areas.


Michael W. Lewis teaches international law and the law of war at Ohio Northern University's College of Law. He is a co-author of "The War on Terror and the Laws of War: A Military Perspective."

http://www.newstimes.com/opinion/article/Drones-best-option-to-fight-al-Qaida-4265613.php
 
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Drones best option to fight al-Qaida

Michael W. Lewis

Published 4:28 pm, Saturday, February 9, 2013

President Obama's second term begins amid intense criticism of the drone strikes being conducted by the United States in Pakistan. Much of this criticism is based on claims that drones are doing more harm than good. A recent Stanford/NYU study concluded that drones cause excessive civilian casualties and frequently fail to hit leadership targets, and that the presence of drones spreads fear and anxiety among the civilian population, disrupts civilians' daily lives, limits public gatherings and disrupts access to education.

Other critics cite the Taliban's detention and execution of suspected "spies" who assist drone targeting. Like many such studies, the NYU/Stanford one did not attempt to interview a single member of the U.S. military. Had it done so, it might have learned that (at least in Afghanistan) there have been instances of Taliban or al-Qaida forces killing civilians and placing their bodies at the site of drone attacks to increase civilian casualty counts.
Yet the study's only attempt to gain the government's perspective was a letter requesting a meeting with the National Security Council. Because the council did not reply within a month, the U.S. government's perspective was excluded from the report.

The report's discussion of civilian casualties adopts the highest estimate offered by any of the three sources that compile such information -- the Bureau of Investigative Journalism. And it consistently describes civilian casualties in the aggregate since the beginning of the drone program rather than examining recent trends. Even the bureau estimates that only seven civilians have been killed in about 60 strikes conducted over the last 13 months. These same strikes are estimated to have killed 250 to 400 militants. Any alternative use of force against Taliban or al-Qaida forces would be likely to cause many more civilian casualties.

Even if drones continue to cause some civilian casualties and have other negative effects, the question of whether continuing the drone campaign is a good policy decision cannot be answered without carefully considering the alternatives available. There are four obvious options for dealing with the Taliban/al-Qaida presence in the federally administered tribal areas of Pakistan.

One is to accept their presence and control of that area and cease operations against them. But this course of action wouldn't address most of the concerns about drones. Taliban control would be far more disruptive to the daily lives of those living in the tribal region than drones are.
Public meetings, unless authorized by the Taliban, would be rare and extremely dangerous. The Taliban's shooting of a 14-year-old girl for attending school speaks volumes about access to education under Taliban rule. And the detention and execution of undesirable individuals would continue, albeit under the guise of heresy rather than spying. Also, ceding the territory to Taliban control would provide the Afghan Taliban with a safe haven from which to continue its operations against American and Afghan forces across the border.

The second option would be for Pakistan's military to assert control over the region. However, its last serious attempt to do so -- the Swat Valley campaign of 2009 -- utilized armored vehicles, artillery and airstrikes to try to dislodge about 5,000 Taliban fighters. This resulted in the displacement of more than 1 million civilians who fled the army's indiscriminate firepower. Last year, mere rumors that the Pakistani military was planning a campaign in Waziristan caused thousands to flee. Pakistan lacks both the desire and the capacity to pursue another campaign to gain control of the tribal areas, and any attempt to conduct such a campaign would be a humanitarian nightmare for the civilians who live there.

The third option would be for the United States to use ground troops and special forces to conduct counterinsurgency operations in the tribal areas.
Even if Pakistan were willing to publicly consent to American ground forces on its territory, an issue that it has carefully finessed in the context of drone operations, it is unlikely that this option would alleviate any of the frequently voiced concerns about the use of drones.
If operations in Afghanistan are any guide, using ground troops would result in as many or more civilian casualties than the current drone campaign and would be more deeply unpopular in Pakistan -- not to mention that it would result in higher U.S. casualties. Ground operations in territory controlled by the Taliban would still rely heavily on drone surveillance, and most raids would occur at night. Such operations in Afghanistan were so unpopular and disruptive of daily life that President Hamid Karzai insisted that continued Afghan cooperation with the United States was contingent on Afghan control over night raids.

The final option is the continued use of drones. Even according to the least favorable numbers presented by the Bureau of Investigative Journalism, drones have effectively disrupted the leadership structure of the Taliban and al-Qaida in Pakistan by killing scores of senior leaders and operational commanders. And the drones' constant presence continues to deny the Taliban a safe haven in which it can train and organize its forces for operations in Afghanistan. Most important, drones have done this while consistently improving their accuracy and reducing civilian casualties. After examining the alternatives, it is clear that drones remain the best option available to minimize the negative effects of the conflict on civilians while continuing to disrupt the Taliban and deny it control of territory in the tribal areas.


Michael W. Lewis teaches international law and the law of war at Ohio Northern University's College of Law. He is a co-author of "The War on Terror and the Laws of War: A Military Perspective."

http://www.newstimes.com/opinion/article/Drones-best-option-to-fight-al-Qaida-4265613.php

So Tom your response is to post unsubstantiated claims made by the US military that it's not them killing children "in some instances" (and in another country, not Pakistan) but rather it is al qaeda murdering children, planting their bodies, and that the parents of these children are in on it? That's always the argument of the war pig. In fact that's the very argument ID and Loyal used to defend Bush's civilian causalities in Iraq. Isn't it amazing what strange bedfellows murdering children make?

This transparent bs was laughable then, and it's laughable now. I don't think you have the guts to read the study..face it Tom, you don't want to know. Ignorance is bliss, and we mustn't allow ugly thoughts to enter our minds and tarnish the moral imperative of our time; keeping Tom safe.
 
So Tom your response is to post unsubstantiated claims made by the US military that it's not them killing children "in some instances" (and in another country, not Pakistan) but rather it is al qaeda murdering children, planting their bodies, and that the parents of these children are in on it? That's always the argument of the war pig. In fact that's the very argument ID and Loyal used to defend Bush's civilian causalities in Iraq. Isn't it amazing what strange bedfellows murdering children make?

This transparent bs was laughable then, and it's laughable now. I don't think you have the guts to read the study..face it Tom, you don't want to know. Ignorance is bliss, and we mustn't allow ugly thoughts to enter our minds and tarnish the moral imperative of our time; keeping Tom safe.

It just occurred to me that if the Taliban are capable of rounding people up in the national football stadium in Kabul, performing public beheadings for heinous crimes like owning music cassettes or shooting girls for wanting to go to school then why wouldn't they pile up bodies to fool Western observers. Only useful idiots like you would discount it, actually you are not even that useful.
 
You are a stupid man who has been convinced that he is very smart. No one is dancing around your question. You are a moron who believes he has set some trap. You might well as ask whether I'd be happy to see you get your hands on some nukes. I wouldn't, but practicing terrorism against your neighbors won't stop it.

No one is talking about negotiating with the taliban. That's another of your stupid diversions. A large part of keeping the taliban from coming to power is to weaken their support among the public. Murdering children, droning villages, then coming back and droning them again when the people come out in an attempt to rescue/help their neighbors, creating a state of perpetual terror for Pakistanis, does not weaken support for anti-american groups like the taliban, it increases support.

Tom, you talk an awful lot about how we have to sacrifice lives because there are bad people in the world. It's morally correct to kill chidlren because al queada is bad. You do all this sitting on your ass in a privileged position in a western nation, while your privileged sons go to college. Never in a million years would your ass, or the ass of either of your sons be on the line. How easy to point a finger and say that child must die so that I can sit there and "Feel" safer. So I can sit here and "feel" my privileged sons, who you can bet your bottom dollar will never fire or take a shot standing up for my beliefs, are safer.

How morally corrupt. And beyond even that sickness...how stupid. How unutterably stupid to believe that murdering anyone's children will ever make you safer. When in fact it does the opposite.

:hand: :hand: :hand: :hand:
 
I will give you one thing, you do spout flowery bollocks. If you agree that talking to them is pointless then what other sanctions do you have? To my mind it is infinitely preferable to attack an organisation at the head rather than the poor bloody infantry. I am supporting the policy of president Obama and indeed that espoused by your great friend Howie. I would give you more credibility if you actually came up with some concrete ideas rather than more of your waffle and emotion laden rhetoric, I am not expecting miracles though.

The one aspect of drones that people like Darla do not understand is that it allows the opportunity for an operator to wait for hours or even days to choose the right time. Contrast that with a mission like the one to get Bin Laden, which of neccesity had to done at night and as quickly as possible to maintain the element of surprise. Although no doubt Darla was against that operation as well because of the possibility of civilian casualties.

She does tend to bitch and moan about anything you say; but for some odd reason, she's unable to offer her own suggestions.
WELL, maybe not that odd; seeing as how she rarely is able to figure out anything on her own.
 
I wouldn't. I'm completely serious. I am not afriad of a Taliban controlled Pakistan anymore than I am of a nuclear Iran.

Well I sure am, the Iranian regime is a lot less loony than a Taliban controlled Pakistan would be. For a start, you can almost guarantee that they would start a war with India with fuck knows what consequences.
 
She does tend to bitch and moan about anything you say; but for some odd reason, she's unable to offer her own suggestions.
WELL, maybe not that odd; seeing as how she rarely is able to figure out anything on her own.

I think she belongs to the stick your fingers in your ears whilst saying la la la school of thought.
 
Don't care, not our problem.

You might care if AQ let off a dirty bomb in Detroit, actually thinking about it, perhaps it would improve the place. Maybe Darla would be persuaded if a cobalt 60 bomb went off in Manhattan?
 
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So a nuclear war between India and Pakistan is nothing to worry about, good to know.

Not our concern. If they want all the benefits of the American military, they can submit themselves as a colony and have all the burdens that pay for it. But until and unless American citizens are directly at risk, I won't give even the slightest of fucks.
 
Not our concern. If they want all the benefits of the American military, they can submit themselves as a colony and have all the burdens that pay for it. But until and unless American citizens are directly at risk, I won't give even the slightest of fucks.

So you really think that it would stop at that? The US, Russia and China would get involved pretty damn quick. I must say I'm more than a little surprised that you and Darla agree on anything but there you go.
 
So you really think that it would stop at that? The US, Russia and China would get involved pretty damn quick. I must say I'm more than a little surprised that you and Darla agree on anything but there you go.

I couldn't care less about Russia or China either. Let them all fry. Fuck send the drones over for that and televise it, I'll bring the popcorn.
 
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