Economic Populism Sells...Libertariansim? Not so much...

I've posted both the answers and the questions .. but it takes the ability to comprehend to figure it out .. as it does what Douglass stood for .. which you don't know either.

Got this little nagging thing that's left hanging out there that people like yourself can't seem to touch in your false argument about damage to white people with AA .. it's called white women.

How many times need I smack you upside the head with this truth before you find the courage to address it?

MOOOOOOO

:cool:

When you're passed over based on your skin color, because you're not a minority, that's damage.
 
I've posted both the answers and the questions .. but it takes the ability to comprehend to figure it out .. as it does what Douglass stood for .. which you don't know either.

Got this little nagging thing that's left hanging out there that people like yourself can't seem to touch in your false argument about damage to white people with AA .. it's called white women.

How many times need I smack you upside the head with this truth before you find the courage to address it?

MOOOOOOO

:cool:

I did address it, did you miss my post earlier? The fact that AA is also sexist (favoring women, including white women), does not mean it is suddenly not racist (favoring black men/women).

You need to be bitchslapped upside the head, repeatedly.
 
Pretty positive I've studied Douglass more than BAC. That's pretty obvious. The quote speaks for itself. So do his books. Your Jesse Jackson race baiting won't work here with intelligent idea focused people.
 
Pretty positive I've studied Douglass more than BAC. That's pretty obvious. The quote speaks for itself. So do his books. Your Jesse Jackson race baiting won't work here with intelligent idea focused people.

In BACs head, because Douglass is black and he is black, it is simply impossible that anyone white could understand him better.
That's just the way this clown thinks. You can tell by his outrage and his conceit.
 
When you're passed over based on your skin color, because you're not a minority, that's damage.

Here I go again ... WHITE WOMEN .. who, by the way, should have gained from the opening of what has historically been a system that discrimnated against them based on their gender.

No idiot .. no matter how deeply lobotomized by the mind-fuck that told him that he was better .. somehow superior to other people can deny that women and minorities have been and were discriminated against even right up to the time that AA guidelines were put in place. How about you? Can you deny it?

So let's play your scaryman's game from the perspective of women, who being a critical part of both the mission and success of AA, SHOULD be included in the discussion of AA .. do you disagree?

What I have been waiting for from you gentleman who claim "whites" have been discriminated against here to step the fuck up and discuss .. but even after many challenges to do so, you'd rather stick to bumper stickers than actually engage like serious adult people do .. not that I don't understand the pressure reality has placed on your failed ideology and what it must feel like to recognize that failure. I do understand why you're a scaryman.

So .. do you believe that white women have discriminated against white people?
 
In BACs head, because Douglass is black and he is black, it is simply impossible that anyone white could understand him better.
That's just the way this clown thinks. You can tell by his outrage and his conceit.

No, what I believe is that if I've studied Douglass and you have not, then I know more about Douglass than you do, I don't give a fuck what color you are .. and I know that if you knew Douglass then you know that he would be considered a militant today as he was also considered a militant then.

And if you knew Douglass then you would not have used that comment to try to prove your point.

My favorite civil rights teacher is Howard Zinn .. and he ain't (eb) black. Perhaps you should read "A People's History of the United States" by Zinn and attempt to truly educate yourself.

Whatever you do .. don't die this dumb.
 
The best way to end racial discrimination is to simply stop discriminating by race.

Words aren't enough. Discrimination and bias are going to be with us, probably as long as the human race continues to exist. Its not the government's job to sing kumbaya, and cleanse our minds of bias. Its the governments job to enforce equal protection under the law, and equality of opportunity.

Affirmative Action, IMO, does little but reinforce the notion of racial identity and discourage integration. The existence of AA leaves lingering bitterness in many whites who misunderstand the program's procedures, which is why I feel we would be better off without it.

If "misunderstanding" AA is the problem, I suggest a better solution is to make people understand it, and stop promoting myths about it. There are no quotas. Quotas are illegal. AA as a program does not effect private industry and private entrepenuers one iota. Unless they contract to work for the government. AA is simply a tool that makes public institutions strive for diversity in their work force. It only is applied to qualified applicants.

No white man has ever had his life profoundly or detrimentally effected by AA. I don't personally know any white man who's life has been screwed by AA. American white men are in the most priviledged position of any society the world has ever known. They are and continue to be the top of the food chain. We are fundamentally never going to be turned down for a job, a housing opportunity, or a taxi cab ride because of the color of our skin.
 
Pretty positive I've studied Douglass more than BAC. That's pretty obvious. The quote speaks for itself. So do his books. Your Jesse Jackson race baiting won't work here with intelligent idea focused people.

Hey, good thing I'm not you .. 'cause I seem to be doing just fine speaking to what you consider to be "intelligent idea focused people" .. most of whom I bet voted for Bush .. which puts to bed any use of the word "intelligent."

I don't know, but something tells me that intelligence would suggest that the body of work speaks to who and what a person was, and quotes should be taken in that context to correctly interpret their meaning.

But you can believe what you want.

Nor would intelligence suggest that "pretty obvious" is a wise choice of words if you want to continue the facade .. of knowing what "intelligence" is
 
LOL..

Please provide any quote from Douglass that suggest he would be in favor of government endorsed affirmative action. I've provided ones that show he wouldn't.
 
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Did Douglass put forward the quote about privilege never giving up anything without a struggle? I remember it being in my "Rules for Radicals" (Alinsky) but a friend has it and I can't look it up.
 
Words aren't enough. Discrimination and bias are going to be with us, probably as long as the human race continues to exist. Its not the government's job to sing kumbaya, and cleanse our minds of bias. Its the governments job to enforce equal protection under the law, and equality of opportunity.



If "misunderstanding" AA is the problem, I suggest a better solution is to make people understand it, and stop promoting myths about it. There are no quotas. Quotas are illegal. AA as a program does not effect private industry and private entrepenuers one iota. Unless they contract to work for the government. AA is simply a tool that makes public institutions strive for diversity in their work force. It only is applied to qualified applicants.

No white man has ever had his life profoundly or detrimentally effected by AA. I don't personally know any white man who's life has been screwed by AA. American white men are in the most priviledged position of any society the world has ever known. They are and continue to be the top of the food chain. We are fundamentally never going to be turned down for a job, a housing opportunity, or a taxi cab ride because of the color of our skin.


Hey dipstick. Getting passed over any opportunity based on skin color is a profound detrimental effect.

The barbarity of raced based hiring practices has no place in a modern society, despite your misguided sense of justice.
 
Here I go again ... WHITE WOMEN .. who, by the way, should have gained from the opening of what has historically been a system that discrimnated against them based on their gender.

No idiot .. no matter how deeply lobotomized by the mind-fuck that told him that he was better .. somehow superior to other people can deny that women and minorities have been and were discriminated against even right up to the time that AA guidelines were put in place. How about you? Can you deny it?

So let's play your scaryman's game from the perspective of women, who being a critical part of both the mission and success of AA, SHOULD be included in the discussion of AA .. do you disagree?

What I have been waiting for from you gentleman who claim "whites" have been discriminated against here to step the fuck up and discuss .. but even after many challenges to do so, you'd rather stick to bumper stickers than actually engage like serious adult people do .. not that I don't understand the pressure reality has placed on your failed ideology and what it must feel like to recognize that failure. I do understand why you're a scaryman.

So .. do you believe that white women have discriminated against white people?


If a white woman ever participated in weighing applications according to race to favor non whites over whites, then yes, that is white woman assisting in disrimination against white people.

Are you saying white people are not discriminated against under affimative action? Of course they are. That's what affrmative action is, a racial preferencing system. Find an AA program and there you hav racial discrimination. How dumb are you, tardbanger?
 
http://www.whitecivilrights.com/end-racial-discrimination-against-european-americans/
End Racial Discrimination against European Americans

European-Americans now face the most extensive racial discrimination in American History. It is true that some Blacks faced discrimination in the past, but the discrimination was limited, primarily practiced in the private sector; and even then there were many businesses and educational institutions that treated them fairly. Today, the Federal Government is forcing an across-the-board racial discrimination against European-Americans in employment, promotions, scholarships, and in college and union admittance. This racial bias is pervading all sectors of our national life, including civil service, education and business.

The U.S. Department of Labor boasts that over 175,000 major corporations have programs favoring Blacks over Whites in employment and promotions. “Affirmative Action�? is a euphemism for nothing more than blatant racial discrimination. No one should harbor the illusion that these programs simply favor equally qualified Blacks, for they consistently favor less qualified Blacks over better qualified Whites. Examples of this practice are the Bakke and Weber Supreme Court decisions that sanctioned racial quotas. Bakke, who scored in the 90’s on his tests for medical school, was denied entrance in deference to Blacks who scored in the 30’s. University of Texas Law School Professor Leno Graglia recently showed that there were only 16 Blacks in the entire nation who deserved to attend the UTLS by scoring at least the minimum qualification scores (LSAT) of the current White students. This kind of discrimination is grossly unfair and also drives down productivity and diminishes the quality of life. Racial discrimination goes on against Whites in hiring and promotions, in scholarships and college admissions, in labor unions and contracting, both public and private.

Black pressure groups have not limited their attention to so-called affirmative action. They have brought about busing and forced integration of schools and neighborhoods, a program that is heightening racial tensions and drastically harming educational quality. Whites in many cities have had to remove their children from the public schools their own taxes pay for and then pay for private education so their children could be safe and well educated. Government has forced higher taxes on productive Americans in order to finance exorbitant and wasteful welfare programs. They have practically handcuffed police and the courts, preventing them from dealing firmly with violent criminals (most of whom are Black). They have opened the floodgates of unrestricted Third World immigration, which increases unemployment and adds to already high welfare costs and crime. All these policies go directly against the interests of America’s European America population.

Groups like the NAACP have litigated and lobbied untiringly on issues they perceive as important to Blacks. On the other hand, there has been no prominent organization that forthrightly worked to defend the civil rights of Whites. Our people must come to the realization that unless we, also, organize to defend our heritage, and even our very right to exist as a people, we will lose everything of real importance to us. Under the leadership of nationally-known White civil rights leader, David Duke, the European-American Unity and Rights Organization (EURO)will receive the attention it needs in the struggle for the rights of European Americans.

Unless European-Americans organize and act soon, America will become a “Third World�? country - that is, European-Americans will become outnumbered and totally vulnerable to the political control of Blacks and other non-Whites. The same kind of population change is also going on in Canada and Europe. There are 24 all-Black countries, but there are no all-White nations except Iceland, and Iceland is not enough! There is no threat to the continued existence of the Black Race, but there is a real threat to the White. If breeds of life like the blue whale, the rocky mountain cougar, or even the tiny breed of fish called the snail darter are worth preserving, shouldn’t a beautiful and creative people such as the White Race, also, be worthy of our concern?

There is no doubt that our people continued to be denigrated by the mass media, that hard-working, productive Americans are being financially stripped by high taxes for wasteful welfare programs, and that our nation is being swamped by immigration. Each of these conditions should make it abundantly clear why we need the European-American Unity and Rights Organization (EURO) to change them!

The European-American Unity and Rights Organization is absolutely necessary if the rights of our people are to be defended, if our heritage is to be preserved, and if our magnificent potentialities are to be realized.

European-American Unity and Rights Organization (EURO) Principles
 
LOL..

Please provide any quote from Douglass that suggest he would be in favor of government endorsed affirmative action. I've provided ones that show he wouldn't.

Please demonstrate anything that would suggest that even the concept of affirmative action existed during the time of Douglass or that he was talking about anything like it in the quote.

I've already provided quotes from him that demonstrate he was a militant who stood firmly against the ungodly evil of racism and he held America responsible.

Mugging Frederick Douglass
by Derrick Z. Jackson,
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0704-07.htm

IN HIS DRIVE-BY shootings of black progress, Clarence Thomas speeds away, spitting at his victims and spewing quotations that stun the onlookers as much as the original attack. No other thug commits black-on-black crime in the name of Frederick Douglass.

Last year, Thomas, the Supreme Court justice, voted to uphold the Cleveland school voucher program even though predominately white suburban systems refused to take them and the $2,250 voucher barely covered one class at wealthy, predominately white private schools. Despite that, Thomas quoted Douglass, the slavery abolitionist, as saying, ''Education ... means emancipation.''

Last week, when the court upheld affirmative action at the University of Michigan's law school, Thomas dissented, saying, ''Like Douglass, I believe blacks can achieve in every avenue of American life without the meddling of university administrators.'' Thomas quoted Douglass as saying in an 1865 speech in Boston: ''The American people have always been anxious to know what they shall do with us ... I have had but one answer from the beginning. Do nothing with us! ... If the Negro cannot stand on his own legs, let him fall ... All I ask is, give him a chance to stand on his own legs! Let him alone! ... Your interference is doing him positive injury.''

Thomas figures if he can get people to believe that unassailable black heroes would smile upon his assault on black people, he will not be arrested as the cowardly black hitman for organized racism. Organized racism, led by conservative think tanks and right-wing politicians, has been trying this for over a decade, trying to kill affirmative action by quoting Martin Luther King Jr.'s 1963 line about not judging people by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. They always dump the King that said near the end of his life, ''America is deeply racist, and its democracy is flawed both economically and socially ... White America must recognize that justice for black people cannot be achieved without radical changes in the structure of our society.''

Despite what King really thought, organized racism has often succeeded in getting white Americans to view affirmative action as reverse discrimination, even though white Americans retain a vast, disproportionate grip on valued jobs and college admissions. Their task has been made all the easier by a battle-shy Democratic Party and a nation whose attention span is so short that less than two years after 3,000 Americans were killed by terrorists, the people have already stopped asking the White House, ''Where's Osama?''

So Thomas is not unique in twisting the words of black icons. But because he is the only black person on the Supreme Court, and because opponents of affirmative action are so eager to find black thugs to darken their white crimes, Thomas's twisting of Douglass takes on a supreme meaning. Douglass and King exhorted African-Americans to work hard to break down barriers and make no excuses. They also held America accountable for racism.

Douglass indeed told a crowd in Boston in 1865, ''Let him alone!'' He indeed said, ''Your interference is doing him positive injury.'' But Thomas dropped the sentences in between, the sentences where Douglass held America accountable. The full quote was: ''Let him alone! If you see him on his way to school, let him alone, don't disturb him! If you see him going to the dinner-table at a hotel, let him go! If you see him going to the ballot-box, let him alone, don't disturb him! If you see him going into a work-shop, just let him alone - your interference is doing him a positive injury.''

It is no wonder Thomas dropped those lines. White America collectively kept interfering, keeping black children out of schools, restaurants, ballot boxes, and good jobs for another century. We are still not being left alone. George W. Bush became president as many African-Americans in Florida shouted interference at the ballot box. Just when affirmative action has helped African-Americans get in the front door of the workshop, a lot of white folks holler white rights.

Thomas also did not quote the very end of the speech he tried to use to trash affirmative action. Douglass said the Civil War swept away many delusions that an African-American was too lazy to work, too cowardly to fight, or was ''a perfect lamb or an Uncle Tom, disposed to take off his coat whenever required, fold his hands and be whipped by anybody who wanted to whip him.''

Thomas dared not quote that, for he is the antithesis of Douglass's boast. In his decisions and dissents, Thomas has been the perfect lamb for organized racism. Whenever required, he puts on his robes and whips out a pen to gun down black people. Ironically, the title of that Douglass speech was ''What the Black Man Wants.'' What most black men want is for Thomas to stop playing the Tom.
***

Only the completely uneducated fool would believe that Douglass would have been closer to Clarence Thomas than Malcolm X, Jesse Jackson, or King.

If you had the slightest notion of what the fuck you're talking about you would be quoting Booker T. Washington, not Douglass you moron.

Booker T. Washington - bio
http://www.learningtogive.org/papers/index.asp?bpid=133

excerpt --

Washington was seen as accommodating the status quo of African American subordination because the message of his writings and speeches was that the road to success for blacks was through achieving economic stability through education (mainly, vocational training); he did not protest, did not challenge the political system, did not speak about the lack of social equality like his critics, Frederick Douglass and W.E.B. Du Bois. Washington chose to concentrate on what blacks could accomplish by focusing on learning industrial skills; he believed this would help his race secure economic self-reliance. Washington felt the militant rhetoric of Douglass and Du Bois distracted his people from the path to prosperity through economic success.
***

As I've said, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

Now, once again .. DO YOU BELIEVE THAT WHITE WOMEN HAVE DISCRIMINATED AGAINST WHITE PEOPLE?
 
Wow, your using a hit piece on Clarence Thomas as some sort of comeback? It's disgraceful what people will do to trash someone who doesn't fit thier worldview. You should be ashamed. I never heard Thomas give that quote but if I were to take more stock on who said it Supreme Court Justice Thomas > some blogger I've never heard of.

"I am in favor of no distinctions on account of color"

"Do nothing with us! If the apples will not remain on the tree of their own strength, if they are wormeaten at the core, if they are early ripe and disposed to fall, let them fall! I am not for tying or fastening them on the tree in any way,"
 
White Women and Blacks don't discriminate because affirmative action per say. It's the government officals who pursued the policys which did. IE Mostly White Males.
 
I'd also like to get back to the main point before you {per usual} turned this into a racial debate. That is of economics and your love of "Einstien Socialism" and we were discussing Labor Theory.
 
Wow, your using a hit piece on Clarence Thomas as some sort of comeback? It's disgraceful what people will do to trash someone who doesn't fit thier worldview. You should be ashamed. I never heard Thomas give that quote but if I were to take more stock on who said it Supreme Court Justice Thomas > some blogger I've never heard of.

"I am in favor of no distinctions on account of color"

"Do nothing with us! If the apples will not remain on the tree of their own strength, if they are wormeaten at the core, if they are early ripe and disposed to fall, let them fall! I am not for tying or fastening them on the tree in any way,"

I've more than adequately proven that you don't know what you're talking about when you speak of Douglass, and it appears that you don't have the capacity to study and learn for yourself.

Next ..
 
I'd also like to get back to the main point before you {per usual} turned this into a racial debate. That is of economics and your love of "Einstien Socialism" and we were discussing Labor Theory.

That isn't what this thread is about at all. You attempted to turn it into a discussion of Labor Theory instead of sticking to the topic which was economic populism sells where libertarianism does not.

I responded to a post about AA but I didn't bring it up. You're not even an honest debater .. on top of being an ill-informed one.

It is a discussion about a surging Huckabee and a stagnant, in spite of all the circus-like hoopla, Ron Paul.

I have NO problem, ZERO problem discussing Einstein's philosophy about socialism .. but I have serious reservations about you being able to hold an intelligent and honest conversation without resorting to South Park antics.

If you'd care to have that serious discussion about it, be my guest and I'll happily and civily respond .. until it gets stupid.
 
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