Einstein and Bohr Redefine Reality

Do you mean Erwin "Schrodinger?" You quoted him, please cite the source. Prove you are not a stupid troll.
Good catch. I should not have put the quotes in there. I'll remove them. I merely wanted to summarize the two different positions, showing clearly that they are not equivalent.

Thanks for keeping me honest. Much appreciated.
 
Not really.

Schroedinger: "You can't know anything until you observe."

Heisenberg: "At the quantum level, the act of observing (measuring) alters the results, so you don't really know exactly what you observed. "


There's really not a whole lot more to it.

Actually I think there's a LOT more to it than that. Mathematically the two "pictures" of the system (Heissenberg and Schroedinger) are apparently equivalent. One is just done with mathematics in a matrix format and the other is done with wave equations.

Schroedinger apparently proved these two are equivalent. But the underlying technical details are painful as anything. It boils down to how variation with time of the state vector is determined. In Heissenberg the operator changes with time while the state vector remains constant with time while in Schroedinger the state vector changes with time while the operator remains constant.

There's also the Dirac Picture which Cypress didn't mention but in that one the state vector and operator both change with time.

That's why I initially proposed that virtually none of us on this forum can actually say what the original statement actually meant. Let alone the philosophical implications.
 
The sad part. He thinks writing that Plato was an ancient Greek make him a Greek scholar.

Nothing you claim about me can be trusted because you also lied your enormous flabby ass about me supposedly posting about religion all the time-->

I scanned the last 25 active threads which I started, and here's the breakdown -->

6 threads are on science
2 are on philosophers
1 on mathmatics
15 on politics, economics, or foreign policy

and 1 thread on religion, which was actually a thread mocking Christian fundamentalists.
 
Nothing you claim about me can be trusted because you also lied your enormous flabby ass about me supposedly posting about religion all the time.

Why are you OK with mocking Christians but you get really angry when someone questions the theological points about the God of the Old Testament?
 
Actually I think there's a LOT more to it than that. Mathematically the two "pictures" of the system (Heissenberg and Schroedinger) are apparently equivalent. One is just done with mathematics in a matrix format and the other is done with wave equations.

Schroedinger apparently proved these two are equivalent. But the underlying technical details are painful as anything. It boils down to how variation with time of the state vector is determined. In Heissenberg the operator changes with time while the state vector remains constant with time while in Schroedinger the state vector changes with time while the operator remains constant.

There's also the Dirac Picture which Cypress didn't mention but in that one the state vector and operator both change with time.

That's why I initially proposed that virtually none of us on this forum can actually say what the original statement actually meant. Let alone the philosophical implications.

You just frantically googled this info and posted it here passing it off as your own original thoughts.

I don't Google tidbits of information and pass them off as my own thoughts, that's why I am careful to attribute scientific ideas and concepts to the experts I learned them from. Even though the master googlers complain about it
 
You just frantically googled this info and posted it here passing it off as your own original thoughts.

Well, it's not like YOU knew ANY of that, so why kvetch about it? You don't know any QM stuff in detail.

Why do you act so superior when you are equally unfamiliar with this stuff?

(Hey, thanks, though, for not even TRYING to discuss the science! LOL. I knew you wouldn't).
 
Does everyone believe Cypress and Doc Dutch are the same person?

It appears they are. When Cypress posts it only takes a short while before Doc shows up to give him support on his posts. Neither of them will say anything even remotely technical either.

It's a sock ecosystem. Cypress wants people to fancy him as smart as he fancies himself so he created the Doc sock to "talk" with. They always agree and support each other and "like" each other's posts.
 
Well, it's not like YOU knew ANY of that, so why kvetch about it? You don't know any QM stuff in detail.

Why do you act so superior when you are equally unfamiliar with this stuff?

(Hey, thanks, though, for not even TRYING to discuss the science! LOL. I knew you wouldn't).

Frantically googling for tidbits of scientific information and then running back here to post it as if it were your own original thoughts is not a sign of scientific literacy or knowledge
 
It appears they are. When Cypress posts it only takes a short while before Doc shows up to give him support on his posts. Neither of them will say anything even remotely technical either.

It's a sock ecosystem. Cypress wants people to fancy him as smart as he fancies himself so he created the Doc sock to "talk" with. They always agree and support each other and "like" each other's posts.

Creepy.
 
Actually I think there's a LOT more to it than that. Mathematically the two "pictures" of the system (Heissenberg and Schroedinger) are apparently equivalent. One is just done with mathematics in a matrix format and the other is done with wave equations.
Because the context is quantum mechanics, we're talking about probability math. What's going on with the wave functions is simply that all possibilities have to be carried forward until an observation is made. At that point, the other previous possibilities that are no longer possibilities have to go away. The wave function "collapses" into the observed result.

Schroedinger apparently proved these two are equivalent.
Heisenberg only cared about how the observation affected the collapsing of the wave function. Hence the disagreement. Heisenberg argued that you can't just collapse the wave function such that as you learn more about a particle's position, you also know more about the particle's momentum. If you don't take into account the extent to which the measurement/observation affects the result, the math will simply render both the position and the momentum.

I assure you, Heisenberg argued the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, which does not yield the same results as the straightforward collapsing of the wave function that returns results for both position and momentum.

Of course, if one excludes the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, then both Schroedinger and Heisenberg recognized that the measurement/observation is what it is, and thus regardless of how the measurement was recorded, the math incorporating the measurement/observation would have to be equivalent.

But the underlying technical details are painful as anything.
It's nothing more than statistical math ... which I agree could be considered "painful", but so are differential equations when they become just a few levels deep. I enjoy setting up equations but I HATE cranking out the numbers. I let someone else do that.
 
Frantically googling for tidbits of scientific information and then running back here to post it as if it were your own original thoughts is not a sign of scientific literacy or knowledge

Well, then you and I are equals. You don't seem to know anything in any technical detail.
 
Well, then you and I are equals. You don't seem to know anything in any technical detail.

I hardly ever use Google when I post here.

Those who frantically google for tidbits of scientific information and then rush back here to present it as their own original ideas are not demonstrating scientific literacy, but they are demonstrating intellectual dishonesty
 
I hardly ever use Google when I post here.

Those who frantically google for tidbits of scientific information and then rush back here to present it as their own original ideas are not demonstrating scientific literacy, but they are demonstrating intellectual dishonesty

That would sound more effective if you weren't the forums Top name dropper.
 
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