FACT CHECK: No 'death panel' in health care bill

Good Luck said:
Of note is how the article carefully asks the kind of questions to avoid exposing what is already happening under democratic health care "reform". Democrats have already made cuts in medicare, by their own admission to help pay for their reform bill. Among other things, these medicare cuts have already placed age limits on certain types of life-sustaining treatments, such as dialysis. So they are DELIBERATELY doing with their plan what they CRITICIZE the current system of doing: declining coverage of life-sustaining treatments in order to save money. And LYING about what they are doing in the process.

In short, the whole argument made above is a STRAWMAN. The issue is NOT about the counseling provision. The issue is about denial of coverage for life-sustaining treatments BASED ON AGE andd it is ALREADY HAPPENING! So they get away with claiming it's not in the bill - because it truly is not in the healthcare bill. It is contained in other bills cutting medicare to PAY for the healthcare bill.
Click to expand...
One of my good friends was talking about this on Saturday. In her fathers last 3 months of life, between all his insurance and personal funds it cost 1 million dollars to keep him alive and he was conscious for exactly 41 hours and 22 minutes of it. Why would ANYONE pay 1 million bucks to keep someone alive for 3 months in a coma? This is pure stupidity. People die, it is the natural course of things. We now have this attitude that we all have a right to live for as long as we can regardless of the quality of life. Old people have become selfish and as demanding as any other group in the US.
 
Socrtease said:
Just like insurance.
Click to expand...

In fact the public option even offers three different levels of coverage you choose from basic to premium, just like insurance. That's all they're talking about. It has to do with the deductibles and stuff you need to pay.
 
blackascoal said:
Go see if I have EVER quoted Scholars for 9/11 truth. I haven't.

I have quoted pilots for 9/11 tuth and feel free to fact check to see if they are real pilots .. combat pilots.

I have quoted Lt. Col Robert Bowman .. and man of impeccable and distinguished credentials.

Feel free to challange his credentials if you choose .. you won't.

Not doing 9/11 here .. don't really care if you believe it or not.

SERIOUSLY, I don't give a damn.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I wont challenge Bowman rambling about detention centers for all the dissenters. Nah... cause now he is in one of those. That is why we never saw any dissenters... except for him... hmm.... he must be in on the conspiracy.

I won't challenge him on his rambling about hijacked planes not being in the air longer than an hour without being intercepted. Cause never in history has a hijacked plane been in the air that long.

I won't challenge his comments that steel buildings don't fall due to kerosene fires. Because that is what the twin towers really were... kerosene fires. No other factors at all. Well now we now where our little parrot got his line of BS from.

He did get the part right where he stated building seven wasn't struck by an airplane. Score one for Bob.

I won't comment on his bullshit line about Bush giving orders to his generals to drop nukes on Iran. Because we all know that happened.

I won't comment on his comment that he would plead with the generals at the Pentagon to arrest Bush and Cheney and court martial them.

Yeah... totally credible guy ya got there....

 
Damocles said:
Just lol.
Click to expand...

Yeah, then he comes on and calls the birthers morons.

I keep trying to get him to tell us the wonderful fairytale of the pipeline being the real reason we went into Afghanistan. But he throws a hissy fit and refuses to tell that wonderful little tale.
 
Socrtease said:
One of my good friends was talking about this on Saturday. In her fathers last 3 months of life, between all his insurance and personal funds it cost 1 million dollars to keep him alive and he was conscious for exactly 41 hours and 22 minutes of it. Why would ANYONE pay 1 million bucks to keep someone alive for 3 months in a coma? This is pure stupidity. People die, it is the natural course of things. We now have this attitude that we all have a right to live for as long as we can regardless of the quality of life. Old people have become selfish and as demanding as any other group in the US.
Click to expand...

This is why every adult should create a living will now. Especially if you are already in retirement. That way your family/friends don't try to keep you alive where a situation like the above occurs. As Soc said, it is pointless.
 
Birthers? 9-11 conspiracy? I leave for a little while and things just go to crap...
As per usual around here.
 
meme said:
sheesh, they support a health care bill that they don't even know what's in it...scary
Click to expand...

Here specifically is what Republicans have actually said as opposed to what the dishonest reporters say they have said

House Republican Leader John Boehner Republican Policy Committee Chairman Thaddeus McCotter confirm those fears.

"Section 1233 of the House-drafted legislation encourages health care providers to provide their Medicare patients with counseling on ‘the use of artificially administered nutrition and hydration’ and other end of life treatments,'" the pair say.

"That section "may place seniors in situations where they feel pressured to sign end of life directives they would not otherwise sign."

"This provision may start us down a treacherous path toward government-encouraged euthanasia if enacted into law. At a minimum this legislative language deserves a full and open public debate – the sort of debate that is impossible to have under the politically-driven deadlines Democratic leaders have arbitrarily set for enactment of a health care bill," they state."
 
Ice Dancer said:
Here specifically is what Republicans have actually said as opposed to what the dishonest reporters say they have said

House Republican Leader John Boehner Republican Policy Committee Chairman Thaddeus McCotter confirm those fears.

"Section 1233 of the House-drafted legislation encourages health care providers to provide their Medicare patients with counseling on ‘the use of artificially administered nutrition and hydration’ and other end of life treatments,'" the pair say.

"That section "may place seniors in situations where they feel pressured to sign end of life directives they would not otherwise sign."

"This provision may start us down a treacherous path toward government-encouraged euthanasia if enacted into law. At a minimum this legislative language deserves a full and open public debate – the sort of debate that is impossible to have under the politically-driven deadlines Democratic leaders have arbitrarily set for enactment of a health care bill," they state."
Click to expand...

Direct quotes in context please, not partisan analysis. "may", "may", "the pair say" This "may" be BS as "they say", ya think?
 
Socrtease said:
One of my good friends was talking about this on Saturday. In her fathers last 3 months of life, between all his insurance and personal funds it cost 1 million dollars to keep him alive and he was conscious for exactly 41 hours and 22 minutes of it. Why would ANYONE pay 1 million bucks to keep someone alive for 3 months in a coma? This is pure stupidity. People die, it is the natural course of things. We now have this attitude that we all have a right to live for as long as we can regardless of the quality of life. Old people have become selfish and as demanding as any other group in the US.
Click to expand...
Yea, wanting to live longer is SO selfish.

Besides, this is not a case of new medicare laws aiming at far end extremes as you relate in your anecdote. Changes to Medicare that have created cut-off ages for certain treatments, including dialysis (expensive, but not exactly millions for a few extra hours, either.). These cutoffs are affecting people whose ONLY condition (other than needing dialysis) is being too old. The person could be fully functional except for their kidneys, and if they are over 75, they have to pay for their own dialysis. Thus, if they cannot afford dialysis, and they are over 75, then they will die from lack of treatment - treatment which is in no way an extreme life saving measure.

Defend that.
 
Good Luck said:
Yea, wanting to live longer is SO selfish.

Besides, this is not a case of new medicare laws aiming at far end extremes as you relate in your anecdote. Changes to Medicare that have created cut-off ages for certain treatments, including dialysis (expensive, but not exactly millions for a few extra hours, either.). These cutoffs are affecting people whose ONLY condition (other than needing dialysis) is being too old. The person could be fully functional except for their kidneys, and if they are over 75, they have to pay for their own dialysis. Thus, if they cannot afford dialysis, and they are over 75, then they will die from lack of treatment - treatment which is in no way an extreme life saving measure.

Defend that.
Click to expand...
What do you mean? Government programs are perfect and you need to stop criticizing or DNC will come on this thread and say "flag@whitehouse.gov" at you!
 
Damocles said:
What do you mean? Government programs are perfect and you need to stop criticizing or DNC will come on this thread and say "flag@whitehouse.gov" at you!
Click to expand...

I actually hope DNC IS sending these posts to the government. Obama's staff would be like... 'this fucker again? Whose dumb ass idea was it to have people send us fishy crap?'
 
belme1201 said:
Direct quotes in context please, not partisan analysis. "may", "may", "the pair say" This "may" be BS as "they say", ya think?
Click to expand...

Wingnuts equate "end of life" counseling with euthanasia. I knew somebody with terminal cancer and his family's end of life counseling dealt with in-home hospice care and the medications necessary to keep him pain-free until the end.

This "death panel" CT is so dishonest as to defy credibility but then again, righty wingnuts always rely on the fear card rather than the fact card to keep their followers in line.
 
Good Luck said:
Yea, wanting to live longer is SO selfish.

Besides, this is not a case of new medicare laws aiming at far end extremes as you relate in your anecdote. Changes to Medicare that have created cut-off ages for certain treatments, including dialysis (expensive, but not exactly millions for a few extra hours, either.). These cutoffs are affecting people whose ONLY condition (other than needing dialysis) is being too old. The person could be fully functional except for their kidneys, and if they are over 75, they have to pay for their own dialysis. Thus, if they cannot afford dialysis, and they are over 75, then they will die from lack of treatment - treatment which is in no way an extreme life saving measure.

Defend that.
Click to expand...

Medicare will not only pay for dialysis, they'll pay for kidney transplants.
Here's a link to their booklet called Medicare Coverage of Kidney Dialysis and Kidney Transplant Services

I couldn't find anything about an age cutoff in it, or in this SS document, either.

http://www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/ssact/title02/0226A.htm
 
Last edited:
Good Luck said:
Yea, wanting to live longer is SO selfish.

Besides, this is not a case of new medicare laws aiming at far end extremes as you relate in your anecdote. Changes to Medicare that have created cut-off ages for certain treatments, including dialysis (expensive, but not exactly millions for a few extra hours, either.). These cutoffs are affecting people whose ONLY condition (other than needing dialysis) is being too old. The person could be fully functional except for their kidneys, and if they are over 75, they have to pay for their own dialysis. Thus, if they cannot afford dialysis, and they are over 75, then they will die from lack of treatment - treatment which is in no way an extreme life saving measure.

Defend that.
Click to expand...

You nailed it! They will use an extreme "personal" story as if that is what is being discussed and by it attempt to make the lump the whole ball of dough.

There is the woman in Oregon for instance who spoke out against euathanaisa laws because of what it cost her. She is now dead. She was refused cancer treatment, but allowed the pills to kill her.

What libs refuse to take into account is the whole picture and its logical course. All governement run programs ration...ALL of them. Health Care will be rationed too. The rationing WILL effect everyone, eventually, in a negataive way. You WILL be too broke to have another option, as the increases you pay in taxes for your ...ehhem free health care will prevent your ability to seek other options.
 
christiefan915 said:
Wingnuts equate "end of life" counseling with euthanasia. I knew somebody with terminal cancer and his family's end of life counseling dealt with in-home hospice care and the medications necessary to keep him pain-free until the end.

This "death panel" CT is so dishonest as to defy credibility but then again, righty wingnuts always rely on the fear card rather than the fact card to keep their followers in line.
Click to expand...

Government should stay out of this. It's just another example of Big Brother taking control of the people.
 
TuTu Monroe said:
Government should stay out of this. It's just another example of Big Brother taking control of the people.
Click to expand...


they screamed about Bush taking away all sorts of their rights, but have no problem with this big brother Obamacare..beats me..
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top