Far Left Liberal San Fran Considers Taxing People Entering The City

Darla said:
Do "poor people" really want cars if there is good, reliable and cheap mass transportation available? Man when I first moved back to the suburbs fairly recently, after living in Seattle and Manhattan, I hated having to shell out 300 a month for car payments, 1,500 a year for insurance, plus maintence and repairs? Some months that really hurt me.
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Tell you what... get the wealthy to agree to take the mass transit instead and allow the poor the option of using whichever means is most economical for them.

I have not had a car payment in 8 years. Due to its age, my insurance is $300 a year.
 
Dungheap said:
OK. Are you the champion of the poor and downtrodden all of a sudden? Should we impose the John Edwards rule on you now?
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When a tax is deliberately regressive, that should not take place.... ever.

That is a whole lot different than 'wealth redistribution'.
 
Superfreak said:
Tell you what... get the wealthy to agree to take the mass transit instead and allow the poor the option of using whichever means is most economical for them.

I have not had a car payment in 8 years. Due to its age, my insurance is $300 a year.
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Well, NYC probably has the most egalitarian mass transit system in this country. Rich people do take the subway here.
 
Darla said:
Well, NYC probably has the most egalitarian mass transit system in this country. Rich people do take the subway here.
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If I lived in London I would travel solely by Tube. Seriously, it was awesome. That and I don't carry home the groceries.
 
Dungheap said:
Actually, no. It punishes driving.
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Which will effect tourists who don't want to park and ride the mass transit system into San Fran or who wish to have a car so that they may drive around San Fran while vacationing there. Business travelers will not likely be effected as BART is pretty convenient to get downtown.
 
Superfreak said:
When a tax is deliberately regressive, that should not take place.... ever.

That is a whole lot different than 'wealth redistribution'.
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Basically, this a means to impose market norms on public goods (city streets in certain areas at certain times). There are other ways to limit travel to these areas but none of them are pretty (quotas immediately come to mind).
 
KingCondanomation said:
"Officials in San Francisco are considering a plan to ease traffic by charging drivers a fee upon entering notoriously clogged sections of the city.

Using $1 million in federal funds, the San Francisco County Transportation Authority is studying various “congestion pricing” options. If approved, such pricing would make San Francisco the first American city to charge cars a fee to enter certain neighborhoods at certain times. "
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/04/us/04congestion.html

And we all know how Liberal Democrats work, once one does it, then the rest try and keep up with the Liberal Joneses and think they are "behind" by not having the same "progressive" legislation.
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Damo, I'd like to know why Dano is on my ignore list and yet I can still see his threads?
 
Darla said:
Well, NYC probably has the most egalitarian mass transit system in this country. Rich people do take the subway here.
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In Chicago and New York, you can get by without having a car if you live and work in the city.

San Fran is not the same.
 
Superfreak said:
In Chicago and New York, you can get by without having a car if you live and work in the city.

San Fran is not the same.
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Oh definitely, not only get by, but get by great. And you don't even need a gym membership. From all of the walking, and especially, up and down subway stairs, you can eat whatever you want. I loved living in Manhattan, and I really want to move back. This year.
 
Dungheap said:
Basically, this a means to impose market norms on public goods (city streets in certain areas at certain times). There are other ways to limit travel to these areas but none of them are pretty (quotas immediately come to mind).
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This does not impose a market norm. It imposes a regressive tax.

Market norm means the residents of the state/city etc... will pay taxes based on income and property value. That is progressive in that the wealthy pay more than the poor. If it is too congested, then travelers will have the option of either coming at a different time or taking an alternate method of transportation.
 
Darla said:
Oh definitely, not only get by, but get by great. And you don't even need a gym membership. From all of the walking, and especially, up and down subway stairs, you can eat whatever you want. I loved living in Manhattan, and I really want to move back. This year.
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I do love that about both of those cities. I wish more people would learn that walking 10-20 blocks isn't that bad and can actually benefit them.
 
Superfreak said:
This does not impose a market norm. It imposes a regressive tax.

Market norm means the residents of the state/city etc... will pay taxes based on income and property value. That is progressive in that the wealthy pay more than the poor. If it is too congested, then travelers will have the option of either coming at a different time or taking an alternate method of transportation.
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What?

Market norms as in financial incentives and disincentives - you have to pay to use the roadways. The roadways are not "free" to use at all times.
 
Dungheap said:
What?

Market norms as in financial incentives and disincentives - you have to pay to use the roadways. The roadways are not "free" to use at all times.
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If they are paid with tax dollars then they most certainly are... unless they happen to be closed for construction or events and thus closed to all traffic... if they are roads that are constructed by bonds backed by toll revenue, then you are correct in stating that they are not free to use at all times.

Again, a regressive tax is NOT 'market norm'.
 
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