APP - 'Five Zombie Economic Ideas That Refuse to Die'

evince said:
You dont get to rewrite history for your political purposes.


No FDR did not lengthen the depression and NO tax cuts dont always produce higher revenue.

You may be stupid enough to buy that crap but most people stick to facts.
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:lies:

Dear God you're stupid. I mean,,, really stupid.
 
apple0154 said:
Excellent article at the link you posted.
(Excerpt) Libertarians are also naïve about the range and perversity of human desires they propose to unleash. They can imagine nothing more threatening than a bit of Sunday-afternoon sadomasochism, followed by some recreational drug use and work on Monday.(End)

Ahhh, a rainy Sunday afternoon, a "knowing glance" at ones partner.....

If only. If only.
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another disingenuous ad hom insult to sway lesser minded individuals back to the mainstream politics of stfu and gbtw moderate submission.
 
Damn Yankee said:
How old are you that you can't back up your assertion that the Reagan/ Bush economy was a "collapse"? How old are you that you don't realize that the economy is cyclical? How old are you that you think that spending in the middle of a recession is going to make the recession go away?
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How old are you that you think tax cuts are going to fix an economy destroyed by globalization stupidity?
 
It is amazing the amount of vitriol aimed at FDR by the rightwing. Anyone who reads honest history can only name him our number one president in modern times. Had he never lived, it is hard to say what America would look like today. Imagine the number of people supported and saved from financial ruin just through social security. Most historians rate him number one, so the fact the wingnuts criticize him only says something about them. Depression, war, fascist stirrings, and a general collapse of the economic structures and the nation's sense of worth and promise, are all issues he helped resolve. Great man, there have been none since him that rise to his stature.

Going back to Coolidge, I think the best were FDR, LBJ, Truman, Nixon, and Eisenhower. The first four got some tough things done that helped more Americans than most policy measures. Eisenhower I rate high as he didn't let the right wing manage him. He maintained a steady sensible position unlike Bush Jr who was a total screw-up. Carter and Clinton could have been great, but bought too much into the economic BS and had personalities that failed on the hard things. Reagan was the worst as he started the decline of America. (see below)

Depression timeline.
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/Timeline.htm
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/Summary.htm

presidents
http://www.infoplease.com/spot/presrankings1.html
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/choice2004/leadership/schlesinger.html


"....there's a growing realization that the starting point for many of the catastrophes confronting the United States today can be traced to Reagan's presidency. There's also a grudging reassessment that the "failed"- presidents of the 1970s--Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter--may deserve more credit for trying to grapple with the problems that now beset the country."
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Ronald-Reagan-Worst-Presi-by-Robert-Parry-090605-584.html

See. Amazon.com: Invisible Hands: The Making of the Conservative Movement from the New Deal to Reagan (9780393059304): Kim Phillips-Fein: Books: Reviews, Prices & more@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/519fqDs4W7L.@@AMEPARAM@@519fqDs4W7L

"Historian Phillips-Fein traces the hidden history of the Reagan revolution to a coterie of business executives, including General Electric official and Reagan mentor Lemuel Boulware, who saw labor unions, government regulation, high taxes and welfare spending as dire threats to their profits and power. From the 1930s onward, the author argues, they provided the money, organization and fervor for a decades-long war against New Deal liberalism—funding campaigns, think tanks, magazines and lobbying groups, and indoctrinating employees in the virtues of unfettered capitalism."
 
midcan5 said:
It is amazing the amount of vitriol aimed at FDR by the rightwing. Anyone who reads honest history can only name him our number one president in modern times. Had he never lived, it is hard to say what America would look like today. Imagine the number of people supported and saved from financial ruin just through social security. Most historians rate him number one, so the fact the wingnuts criticize him only says something about them. Depression, war, fascist stirrings, and a general collapse of the economic structures and the nation's sense of worth and promise, are all issues he helped resolve. Great man, there have been none since him that rise to his stature.

Going back to Coolidge, I think the best were FDR, LBJ, Truman, Nixon, and Eisenhower. The first four got some tough things done that helped more Americans than most policy measures. Eisenhower I rate high as he didn't let the right wing manage him. He maintained a steady sensible position unlike Bush Jr who was a total screw-up. Carter and Clinton could have been great, but bought too much into the economic BS and had personalities that failed on the hard things. Reagan was the worst as he started the decline of America. (see below)

Depression timeline.
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/Timeline.htm
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/Summary.htm

presidents
http://www.infoplease.com/spot/presrankings1.html
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/choice2004/leadership/schlesinger.html


"....there's a growing realization that the starting point for many of the catastrophes confronting the United States today can be traced to Reagan's presidency. There's also a grudging reassessment that the "failed"- presidents of the 1970s--Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter--may deserve more credit for trying to grapple with the problems that now beset the country."
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Ronald-Reagan-Worst-Presi-by-Robert-Parry-090605-584.html

See. Amazon.com: Invisible Hands: The Making of the Conservative Movement from the New Deal to Reagan (9780393059304): Kim Phillips-Fein: Books: Reviews, Prices & [email]more

"Historian Phillips-Fein traces the hidden history of the Reagan revolution to a coterie of business executives, including General Electric official and Reagan mentor Lemuel Boulware, who saw labor unions, government regulation, high taxes and welfare spending as dire threats to their profits and power. From the 1930s onward, the author argues, they provided the money, organization and fervor for a decades-long war against New Deal liberalism—funding campaigns, think tanks, magazines and lobbying groups, and indoctrinating employees in the virtues of unfettered capitalism."
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I just want to know why he elected as many times as he was if he was such a horrible man and his policies extended the USA blight? Are Americans that stupid?
 
Rana said:
I just want to know why he elected as many times as he was if he was such a horrible man and his policies extended the USA blight? Are Americans that stupid?
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he offered those without money, the money of others. In other words, he made the founders prediction of the death of democracy come true.

The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.
- Thomas Jefferson
 
SmarterThanYou said:
he offered those without money, the money of others. In other words, he made the founders prediction of the death of democracy come true.

The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.
- Thomas Jefferson
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I am sorry, I don't see people not willing to work as being the standard in the USA, I see most of us as wanting a hand up and not a hand out, been when times are tough and there are no jobs, for whatever reason, then people need a little help. I have seen the faces of the unemployed these days and it isn't the welfare queen Reagan lied about or the do nothings that you think are the majority, they are people who want a job, and one woman was even collecting glass just to have money to eat. I think you mock those down on their luck with your thinking. The majority of Americans want to work and have a good productive life and FDR's measures gave the people in the bread lines hope and a new start.
 
Rana said:
I am sorry, I don't see people not willing to work as being the standard in the USA, I see most of us as wanting a hand up and not a hand out, been when times are tough and there are no jobs, for whatever reason, then people need a little help. I have seen the faces of the unemployed these days and it isn't the welfare queen Reagan lied about or the do nothings that you think are the majority, they are people who want a job, and one woman was even collecting glass just to have money to eat. I think you mock those down on their luck with your thinking. The majority of Americans want to work and have a good productive life and FDR's measures gave the people in the bread lines hope and a new start.
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you couldn't be any more wrong. I've been down on my luck, when the only jobs were raking leaves for my neighbors and i'm 44 years old. some people want to work, most people don't want to work any harder than they have to. This is also a by product of the welfare entitlement agenda of the Liberals. FDR's measures were nothing but the road to hell paved with good intentions. Look what it has wrought for us now. Kids that drop out of school because they know that they can get a government handout if they can't find a job that doesn't require a diploma. I know several kids right now that have quit jobs because their mother would no longer give them a ride and they refuse to walk 15 blocks to their job.

People nowadays have no clue what it really means to have to work hard and they have no intention of finding out when the government will back them up on it.
 
Rana said:
He just repeats what he hears on Faux News.

There are several studies that show the situation would have been one of the deepest depression in our history if the steps had not been taken.

Tuesday will reveal what kind of crazy will run our government until the next election.

I don't try to talk to brick walls, the evidence is there, they don't want Pres. Obama to have any success, but history will be the judge. I would hate to think what would have happened without the stimulus. Hopefully, Congress and the President, after this new blood comes in will have to buckle down and make some hard decisions. I think Pres. Obama is capable of doing that and working with Congress to raise taxes and cut the budget to balance it. This is my hope, but he will need Congress to work with him.
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The stimulus helped in PA.

Unemployment would be above 14 percent in Pennsylvania and approaching 16 percent nationally if not for the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act and other federal action taken in the wake of the recession, according to a new report released by the Keystone Research Center Thursday...

Actions taken by the Federal Reserve, Bush and Obama administrations, and Congress have all helped curb unemployment, Price said. Early last year, before passage of the federal Recovery Act, Pennsylvania was losing nearly 30,000 jobs each month. The state by contrast has added 64,000 jobs during the first half of this year. Pennsylvania also benefited from Congress’ recent extension of federal Medicaid assistance to states and additional school funding to preserve teacher jobs, which kept the state from losing as many as 12,000 more jobs.

Read more: Keystone Research Center: Unemployment would be 16% without stimulus * Philadelphia Business Journal
 
christiefan915 said:
The stimulus helped in PA.

Unemployment would be above 14 percent in Pennsylvania and approaching 16 percent nationally if not for the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act and other federal action taken in the wake of the recession, according to a new report released by the Keystone Research Center Thursday...

Actions taken by the Federal Reserve, Bush and Obama administrations, and Congress have all helped curb unemployment, Price said. Early last year, before passage of the federal Recovery Act, Pennsylvania was losing nearly 30,000 jobs each month. The state by contrast has added 64,000 jobs during the first half of this year. Pennsylvania also benefited from Congress’ recent extension of federal Medicaid assistance to states and additional school funding to preserve teacher jobs, which kept the state from losing as many as 12,000 more jobs.

Read more: Keystone Research Center: Unemployment would be 16% without stimulus * Philadelphia Business Journal
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not sure how they can call this 'stimulus' and that it helped when all they did was LOAN the people money to make it look like they were working......only to have to pay it back.
 
midcan5 said:
It is amazing the amount of vitriol aimed at FDR ...
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Don't change the subject; answer the questions:
How old are you that you can't back up your assertion that the Reagan/ Bush economy was a "collapse"? How old are you that you don't realize that the economy is cyclical? How old are you that you think that spending in the middle of a recession is going to make the recession go away?
 
SmarterThanYou said:
not sure how they can call this 'stimulus' and that it helped when all they did was LOAN the people money to make it look like they were working......only to have to pay it back.
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pay it back, but when?

better to work now and later than not, even if you have to pay back the loan
 
Damn Yankee said:
Don't change the subject; answer the questions:
How old are you that you can't back up your assertion that the Reagan/ Bush economy was a "collapse"? How old are you that you don't realize that the economy is cyclical? How old are you that you think that spending in the middle of a recession is going to make the recession go away?
Click to expand...

since i am 65, i have experienced several down turn so yes i know the economy is cyclic, but some cycles are further apart than others and some are deeper than others

supply side and trickle down economics do not and did not work - they were just voodoo economics

cutting taxes does not help if the principal cuts are for the rich as the rich just buy more toys...
 
Don Quixote said:
since i am 65, i have experienced several down turn so yes i know the economy is cyclic, but some cycles are further apart than others and some are deeper than others

[1]supply side and trickle down economics do not and did not work - they were just voodoo economics

[2]cutting taxes does not help if the principal cuts are for the rich as the rich just buy more toys...
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1. Again, back up your assertion with facts.
2. First of all, cutting taxes is not spending, so you failed to answer the question: How is spending in the middle of a recession is going to make the recession go away? Secondly, if rich people buy more toys, who makes the toys? Doesn't that put a demand for toys that would supposedly fuel the economy as you liberals assert?
 
midcan5 said:
"Two years after the financial crisis, the U.S. economy has steered clear of total disaster, with the Dow Jones industrial average currently near its pre-crash level. But the theories that caused it all are still out there, lurking in the shadows."

By John Quiggin

This was my favorite.

Unlike some of the zombie ideas discussed here, trickle-down economics has long been with us. The term itself seems to have been coined by cowboy performer Will Rogers, who observed of U.S. President Herbert Hoover's 1928 tax cuts: "The money was all appropriated for the top in the hopes that it would trickle down to the needy. Mr. Hoover ... [didn't] know that money trickled up.""

"I’m fully aware that I risk excommunication from the Church of Economic Science when I argue exactly the opposite: Tax cuts actually hurt the economy. It isn’t just that they don’t help, or that they’re ineffective—THEY REALLY HURT!"
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trickle down is the people on top micturating on the ones below
 
Damn Yankee said:
1. Again, back up your assertion with facts.
2. First of all, cutting taxes is not spending, so you failed to answer the question: How is spending in the middle of a recession is going to make the recession go away? Secondly, if rich people buy more toys, who makes the toys? Doesn't that put a demand for toys that would supposedly fuel the economy as you liberals assert?
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Yes, but in a context of globalist idiocy, those toys are just made by overseas government slaves, not americans.
 
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