Force Trump to testify at his impeachment trial. It will be golden!

BidenPresident said:
Let's see that argument.
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I already made it.

If you can impeach someone who isn't in office and bar them from that office in the future, after they've held that office then there is no reason you can't do the same to someone before they hold that office. Therefore it can be argued that you could impeach a potential office holder before hand to bar them from holding office just as easily as impeaching someone after holding office to bar them from holding office. There is no real difference.
 
BidenPresident said:
I understand it as a false analogy.
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The fallacy of false analogy arises when one attempts to prove or disprove a claim using an analogy that is not suitable for the situation. That is, one makes wrong assumptions about a situation based on observations from another situation. That is making an "apples to oranges" argument.

I did not do that here. My analogy is a straight claim that if you can impeach someone who isn't in office and bar them from holding that office in the future, that it could as easily be applied to before they held office as it could after they held office. There is no real difference.

So, again, if there were a candidate for President who was saying some stuff those in power now didn't like, they could simply charge that person for their statements, impeach, and convict them barring them from obtaining office before the fact based on their statements. After all, that is exactly what the Democrats are currently doing to Trump. They disagree with his words and statements, and are making an argument he should be barred from future holding of the office of President.
 
Nordberg said:
That is not arguable. That is absurd.
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Why? Impeaching someone who isn't in office to remove them from that office is absurd. If that can be done, and that person then further barred from holding that office in the future as part of that impeachment, it is a short step to doing it before the fact rather than after.
 
anything that will show one more person what a piece of shit that the right worships is a gain. Anything that will do that is a patriotic move for the good of our Republic.
 
jbander said:
anything that will show one more person what a piece of shit that the right worships is a gain. Anything that will do that is a patriotic move for the good of our Republic.
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T. A. Gardner said:
Why? Impeaching someone who isn't in office to remove them from that office is absurd. If that can be done, and that person then further barred from holding that office in the future as part of that impeachment, it is a short step to doing it before the fact rather than after.
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stop that. Trump was in office when he was impeached. You have to know that much. This is Trump's second impeachment. Were you in Borneo last year?
 
The only way they could force him to testify is if they gave him immunity from any further prosecution in regard to charges that may be filed after this pony show, he has 5th Amendment rights like everyone else.
 
jbander said:
They can force every document that they in any way can find the slightest value and ask questions read right of his political and personal documents, he will plead the fifth and they will believe what the document says, There is no way he can hold back these documents.
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trump can plead the fifth, but can also be given transactional immunity. That is where we get into an iffy zone. If Giuliani is given transactional immunity, he cannot plead the fifth in the impeachment trial. His testimony could not be used against him, so fifth amendment rights are no longer attached. But trump would be on trial, so normally transactional immunity would make no sense. Giving someone immunity in their own trial to get testimony out of them for their own trial...

But actually it might make sense. trump has a fifth amendment right against self-incrimination, but this is not a criminal trial. They might be able to force him to testify, even if he pleads the fifth. It is all uncharted territory.
 
Damocles said:
The only way they could force him to testify is if they gave him immunity from any further prosecution in regard to charges that may be filed after this pony show, he has 5th Amendment rights like everyone else.
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It’s not a horse and pony show. Typical Trumpublican response.
 
Phantasmal said:
It’s not a horse and pony show. Typical Trumpublican response.
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It doesn't change the facts though, I am right and the only way you can force somebody to testify is if they are ensured that they cannot be prosecuted because of a 5th Amendment... pesky thing that. In this case, since Impeachment doesn't punish past removal from office, and exclusion from eligibility to run for office, they could force him to testify in the impeachment trial if they removed any attachment and gave immunity from prosecution for the crimes they are accusing him of as Impeachment specifically does not attach to double jeopardy. Otherwise anything he said under oath could be used against him in a later criminal trial.
 
Damocles said:
It doesn't change the facts though, I am right and the only way you can force somebody to testify is if they are ensured that they cannot be prosecuted because of a 5th Amendment... pesky thing that. In this case, since Impeachment doesn't punish past removal from office, and exclusion from eligibility to run for office, they could force him to testify in the impeachment trial if they removed any attachment and gave immunity from prosecution for the crimes they are accusing him of as Impeachment specifically does not attach to double jeopardy. Otherwise anything he said under oath could be used "against him" in a later criminal trial.
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I realize he doesn’t have to testify. It would be a dumb move on his part if he did. He’d perjure himself. Trump is unable to tell the truth.
 
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