Future of College Sports - NIL/Transfer Portal

[Celticguy]

It was 100% illegal. (Well technically schools gave players stipends but that was regulated across the board. But coaches got busted for buying kids dinner or a donor buying a kid a drink etc.)

Its not illegal apart from not collecting taxes or that sort of thing.

It goes WAY beyond buying dinners or sweatshirts. Kids were getting 6 figure signing bonuses on top of like "salaries", parents were given houses nearby so they could see their kids play.

 

[Celticguy]

Princeton v Creighton huh ? Princeton are 15 pt dogs to a 3rd place Blue Jay's squad. They should lose on paper certainly but it could be a good game. Princeton has NOTHING to lose so all the pressure is on Creighton to NOT lose top a 15 seed. I'm guessing pretty good game, Tigers beat the spread but yes, lose.

Princeton down 47-43 at the half.
Creighton to the Elite 8 for the first time in school history 86-75. Just like I said !

 

[cawacko]

Its not illegal apart from not collecting taxes or that sort of thing.

It goes WAY beyond buying dinners or sweatshirts. Kids were getting 6 figure signing bonuses on top of like "salaries", parents were given houses nearby so they could see their kids play.

No question that it happened but it was 100% illegal to do so. The NCAA may have had selective enforcement but that’s why schools were put on probation, why SMU got the death penalty back in the day etc.

(Years ago I was in Cabo for a buddy’s wedding. We ran into a group of USC football players who were on spring break. I tried to buy them drinks and they wouldn’t accept because it would have been a NCAA violation.)

 

[Celticguy]

No question that it happened but it was 100% illegal to do so. The NCAA may have had selective enforcement but that’s why schools were put on probation, why SMU got the death penalty back in the day etc.

(Years ago I was in Cabo for a buddy’s wedding. We ran into a group of USC football players who were on spring break. I tried to buy them drinks and they wouldn’t accept because it would have been a NCAA violation.)

if it was illegal, what law was violated ?
if it was illegal, why were there never arrests and charges filed ?
Yes, enforcement was "selective" at best (Joke: NCAA is SO mad at Kentucky MBB that they will hit Bugtussle U with the Death Penalty!).
The government doesn't care about amature athletics.

 

[cawacko]

if it was illegal, what law was violated ?
if it was illegal, why were there never arrests and charges filed ?
Yes, enforcement was "selective" at best (Joke: NCAA is SO mad at Kentucky MBB that they will hit Bugtussle U with the Death Penalty!).
The government doesn't care about amature athletics.

I'm not an attorney but it's not the government setting these laws its the NCAA, and the Universities are members of the NCAA and agree to follow their bylaws. If the USC player I tried to buy a drink accepted we would have broken NCAA rules, not the government's. I wouldn't be arrested for buying the kid a drink. But that kid could lose eligibility. USC could get probation or other punishments. I could be labeled a booster and told I have to stay away from University events etc.

 

[archives]

It was 100% illegal. (Well technically schools gave players stipends but that was regulated across the board. But coaches got busted for buying kids dinner or a donor buying a kid a drink etc.)

Illegal according to NCAA rules, which again applied, but I don’t believe technically illegal, violating some existing law

 

[cawacko]

Illegal according to NCAA rules, which again applied, but I don’t believe technically illegal, violating some existing law

Correct, it's not a violation of government law (I mean I guess technically you could be violating government rules if someone is paying you under the table and you don't report it for tax purposes but that's a separate discussion). But government law doesn't apply here it's the NCAA rules that have authority. As part of the NCAA you agree to follow their rules and they have the power to punish violators.

 

[Celticguy]

I'm not an attorney but it's not the government setting these laws its the NCAA, and the Universities are members of the NCAA and agree to follow their bylaws. If the USC player I tried to buy a drink accepted we would have broken NCAA rules, not the government's. I wouldn't be arrested for buying the kid a drink. But that kid could lose eligibility. USC could get probation or other punishments. I could be labeled a booster and told I have to stay away from University events etc.

OK thats better. Its all NCAA rules, not laws. No you would receive no arrest warrants, the school would have to report it and NCAA would decide if its a trend or a mistake. THe player would not suffer over a meal (a car might be different). That said LOTS of kids got cars as well as cash and anything else you can imagine.

 

[archives]

The argument against that will be it was amateur for the athletes but not the universities or the coaches. So you can go to an Ivy League model and not give scholarships and make everything more like club sports. But that was never going to happen. (and they will say it’s 100% about race. That’s our world today, colorblind arguments won’t fly.)

You mentioned in a post awhile back not knowing who Ibrahm X Kendi was. He’s the best selling “author” who wrote How To Be An Anti-Racist. You have to understand that mindset/mentality to understand the argument that the amateur model used by the NCAA was racist and why the fight for NIL/transfer portal. Thus why we’ll never go back to the old model.

No I understand the argument, schools/coaches/media/etc profited off of the college athletics while the athlete got nothing, and considering a large number of these athletes were Black and could really used the money, it had racist overtones

And I already told you my solution, Unionization, allow the athletes to form unions, sign contracts directly with the schools, allow them privy to school budgets, negotiate salaries/benefits, take the secret private million dollar donor out of the picture

 

[cawacko]

OK thats better. Its all NCAA rules, not laws. No you would receive no arrest warrants, the school would have to report it and NCAA would decide if its a trend or a mistake. THe player would not suffer over a meal (a car might be different). That said LOTS of kids got cars as well as cash and anything else you can imagine.

Players have been receiving illegal benefits forever. It's just a reality. (If you ever watched the ESPN 30 For 30 on college football in the '80's it was wild for what boosters were offering kids.) It's forever a cat and mouse game between the schools, boosters and the NCAA as to what they can get away with.

N.I.L. is at least attempting to bring it above ground.

 

[archives]

Princeton down 47-43 at the half.
Creighton to the Elite 8 for the first time in school history 86-75. Just like I said !

Princeton covered, Creighton altered their game plan at half, adjusted to monopolize what Princeton was giving them, Princeton just didn’t the athletes to change

Creighton is a smart team, good coach, although I don’t know how they’ll match up with the football teams they would have to face going forward, depends on the referees. The Big East has probably been the second best conference all year

 

[archives]

Players have been receiving illegal benefits forever. It's just a reality. (If you ever watched the ESPN 30 For 30 on college football in the '80's it was wild for what boosters were offering kids.) It's forever a cat and mouse game between the schools, boosters and the NCAA as to what they can get away with.

N.I.L. is at least attempting to bring it above ground.

Sure there were “benefits,” but some schools were exorbitant in their “benefits,” and the NCAA was ruled by school chancellors/presidents, largely from State schools, who turned a blind eye to a lot of which was going on. I know in basketball it was usually the private school who were the ones “caught” and penalized

NIL’s, manipulation of NIL, opportunity cost is far greater than merits “bringing it above ground”

 

[cawacko]

Sure there were “benefits,” but some schools were exorbitant in their “benefits,” and the NCAA was ruled by school chancellors/presidents, largely from State schools, who turned a blind eye to a lot of which was going on. I know in basketball it was usually the private school who were the ones “caught” and penalized

NIL’s, manipulation of NIL, opportunity cost is far greater than merits “bringing it above ground”

They've tried the unionization route and its gone nowhere. If you google, there are good articles breaking down why it didn't, and won't, happen. So with that off the table you have to deal with what's in front of you. The Ed O'Bannon ruling was a game changer. Right now it's the wild wild west with the N.I.L. because its so new and people are trying to figure what's acceptable and what's not. Hopefully something will be put in place soon offering more guidance.

 

[archives]

They've tried the unionization route and its gone nowhere. If you google, there are good articles breaking down why it didn't, and won't, happen. So with that off the table you have to deal with what's in front of you. The Ed O'Bannon ruling was a game changer. Right now it's the wild wild west with the N.I.L. because its so new and people are trying to figure what's acceptable and what's not. Hopefully something will be put in place soon offering more guidance.

Unionization didn’t work, and it was only attempted minimally, because the efforts weren’t aimed at full unionization but rather an altered model, besides, last thing the schools, NCAA’s, would want is athletes organized, so it never had a chance

Your as naive as Mick Cronin, there isn’t going to be guidance, the last thing the schools profiting off of NIL, which not ironically were the same ones from enriching themselves from prior “benefits,” are going to return to oversight

 

[Minister of Truth]

Gonzaga still has UCLA's number.

 

[Celticguy]

Players have been receiving illegal benefits forever. It's just a reality. (If you ever watched the ESPN 30 For 30 on college football in the '80's it was wild for what boosters were offering kids.) It's forever a cat and mouse game between the schools, boosters and the NCAA as to what they can get away with.

N.I.L. is at least attempting to bring it above ground.

I was watching all that real time in the 80's and yes it was wild and wooly !

 

[Celticguy]

Princeton covered, Creighton altered their game plan at half, adjusted to monopolize what Princeton was giving them, Princeton just didn’t the athletes to change

Creighton is a smart team, good coach, although I don’t know how they’ll match up with the football teams they would have to face going forward, depends on the referees. The Big East has probably been the second best conference all year

Creighton started hitting shots and Princton started missing but yes, adjustments favored the Blue Jays.

Now they get San Diego State who are a legit team favored -2.5. Should be a good game to watch.

 

[cawacko]

I was watching all that real time in the 80's and yes it was wild and wooly !

Cars, money, trailer park homes, jobs you didn't have to show up for etc. It was the wild wild west. Almost everyone was doing it yet they decided to fvck SMU the hardest. That program has never really recovered which is why you'll never see a penalty that harsh again.

 

[Celticguy]

Cars, money, trailer park homes, jobs you didn't have to show up for etc. It was the wild wild west. Almost everyone was doing it yet they decided to fvck SMU the hardest. That program has never really recovered which is why you'll never see a penalty that harsh again.

I was an Oklahoma fan back then and I loved how the cops had to go to the football dorm to make the players stop firing Uzis out the windows.

Remember when they sent Mike Kryschevski (I know the spelling is wrong) got sent to please with the university presidents after they slashed scholarships due to this mess ? (they hit basketball and football) He got laughed out of the room.