George Galloway 'clarifies' rape comments amid growing storm

George Galloway has insisted he regards non-consensual sex as rape but says he stands by controversial comments made about sex assault allegations facing Wikileaks founder Julian Assange.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19334598

I understand about consensual and non-consensual sex BUT what if the other party consents and then falls asleep!!!? And can I now make a claim for the times I have been half awakened by the advances of a partner and not actually agreed? Perhaps we should all carry a form attached to a clipboard!

Can you please just let go and stop that so you can sign this form? No. I haven't got a pen. Haven't you?
 
I understand about consensual and non-consensual sex BUT what if the other party consents and then falls asleep!!!? And can I now make a claim for the times I have been half awakened by the advances of a partner and not actually agreed? Perhaps we should all carry a form attached to a clipboard!

Can you please just let go and stop that so you can sign this form? No. I haven't got a pen. Haven't you?

I am more pissed off at the reported £50,000 a day to keep police outside the Ecuadorian embassy. Assange has committed no crime in the UK so why the fuck don't they just tell him to leave the country and if he chooses to go somewhere else other than Sweden, then who cares.
 
I understand about consensual and non-consensual sex BUT what if the other party consents and then falls asleep!!!? And can I now make a claim for the times I have been half awakened by the advances of a partner and not actually agreed? Perhaps we should all carry a form attached to a clipboard!

Can you please just let go and stop that so you can sign this form? No. I haven't got a pen. Haven't you?

They don't like it up 'em, as Corporal Jones might say!! Actually I seem to recall that the issue was about having sex without a condom. Apart from the loony fringe on here who believe that the sistas can never tell a lie, how exactly is anyone supposed to prove that, one way or another?
 
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I am more pissed off at the reported £50,000 a day to keep police outside the Ecuadorian embassy. Assange has committed no crime in the UK so why the fuck don't they just tell him to leave the country and if he chooses to go somewhere else other than Sweden, then who cares.

Precisely.
We were having a little muse the other day thinking about how we could get him out. It ranged from a Harrods delivery van with a sliding roof for him to jump into from the rooff the embassy, to latex re-modelling of his features and walking out as a visiting Ecuadorian diplomat, who fesses up (as they say here) as soon as he has arrived somewhere safe.Then he'd have to be taken to a private airstrip on the south coast and parachuted over a remote French village before GC Biggles could catch him and shoot him down over the Isle of Wight. Just need some stirring music now and we're set.
 
I am more pissed off at the reported £50,000 a day to keep police outside the Ecuadorian embassy. Assange has committed no crime in the UK so why the fuck don't they just tell him to leave the country and if he chooses to go somewhere else other than Sweden, then who cares.
Cause it has nothing to do with rape, sexual assualt or Sweden. They want to lock this guy up so they can shut him up.
 
I understand about consensual and non-consensual sex BUT what if the other party consents and then falls asleep!!!? And can I now make a claim for the times I have been half awakened by the advances of a partner and not actually agreed? Perhaps we should all carry a form attached to a clipboard!

Can you please just let go and stop that so you can sign this form? No. I haven't got a pen. Haven't you?

Falls asleep, I would advise new techniques ;)
 
Cause it has nothing to do with rape, sexual assualt or Sweden. They want to lock this guy up so they can shut him up.


I still don't understand why the US hasn't applied directly to extradite Assange, we seem to just roll over and present our hindquarters whenever you guys even ask. Maybe this article in the New Statesman helps to explain it all. I do find it surprising that sex with someone asleep is also considered rape in England.

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/david-allen-green/2012/08/legal-myths-about-assange-extradition
 
A sleeping person cannot give consent people. Neither can someone passed out drunk. Boy does this throw some light on all those "false" rape reports huh???

Also we are very conveniently leaving out some details. At least one of the women claimed coercion. The woman who awoke with Assange screwing her was very clear that she never really wanted to have sex with him, said yes but only if he wore a condom which he highly resisted, then he wore it. When she awoke he was inside of her without a condom. Yes this is rape.

I read both of the women's statements at the time and the other details escape me, but there were more.
 
I still don't understand why the US hasn't applied directly to extradite Assange, we seem to just roll over and present our hindquarters whenever you guys even ask. Maybe this article in the New Statesman helps to explain it all. I do find it surprising that sex with someone asleep is also considered rape in England.

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/david-allen-green/2012/08/legal-myths-about-assange-extradition

As I've already said how do you prove that a condom was or wasn't used and that the sex wasn't consensual. It was also reported at the time that the two women he slept with were angry that they were not his only sex partner.
 
As I've already said how do you prove that a condom was or wasn't used and that the sex wasn't consensual. It was also reported at the time that the two women he slept with were angry that they were not his only sex partner.

Rape is so he said she said. And usually the bitch is lying.

Men are the real victims of rape.

Whatever the fuck you said you have been leaving out an awful lot of details on this. An awful lot.
 
The political issues surrounding this need to be kept separate from the issue of rape. It's very possible that Assange is being extradited for political reasons...rape usually is not a big deal to the powers that be.

This does not mean that rape did not occur. In other words, both of these things can be true:

1) Julian Assange is a rapist.
2) The United states and the UK are pursuing him for political reasons and don't give a crap about rape one way or the other. As is usually the case.

Not rocket science.
 
Legal myths about the Assange extradition

A brief critical and source-based guide to some common misconceptions.


By David Allen Green Published 20 August 2012 13:49

Whenever the Julian Assange extradition comes up in the news, many of his supporters make various confident assertions about legal aspects of the case.
Some Assange supporters will maintain these contentions regardless of the law and the evidence – they are like “zombie facts” which stagger on even when shot down; but for anyone genuinely interested in getting at the truth, this quick post sets out five common misconceptions and some links to the relevant commentary and material. It complements a similar post on the leading Blog That Peter Wrote.
[Add: also now see this excellent post by barrister Anya Palmer.]
(Please note that particularly relevant in this case are the three English court rulings which are freely available on-line: Magistrates’ Court, High Court, and Supreme Court.)

One: “The allegation of rape would not be rape under English law”

This is flatly untrue. The Assange legal team argued this twice before English courts, and twice the English courts ruled clearly that the allegation would also constitute rape under English law.
(See my post at Jack of Kent for further detail on this.)

Two: “Assange is more likely to be extradited to USA from Sweden than the United Kingdom”

This is similarly untrue. Any extradition from Sweden to the United States would actually be more difficult. This is because it would require the consent of both Sweden and the United Kingdom.
(See Francis FitzGibbon QC’s Nothing Like the Sun for further detail on this.)
One can add that there is no evidence whatsoever that the United Kingdom would not swiftly comply with any extradition request from the United States; quite the reverse. Ask Gary McKinnon, or Richard O'Dwyer, or the NatWest Three.
In reality, the best opportunity for the United States for Assange to be extradited is whilst he is in the United Kingdom.

Three: “Sweden should guarantee that there be no extradition to USA”

It would not be legally possible for Swedish government to give any guarantee about a future extradition, and nor would it have any binding effect on the Swedish legal system in the event of a future extradition request.
By asking for this 'guarantee', Assange is asking the impossible, as he probably knows. Under international law, all extradition requests have to be dealt with on their merits and in accordance with the applicable law; and any final word on an extradition would (quite properly) be with an independent Swedish court, and not the government giving the purported 'guarantee'.
(See extradition and criminal lawyer Niall McCluskey for further detail on this.)
Also Sweden (like the United Kingdom) is bound by EU and ECHR law not to extradite in circumstances where there is any risk of the death penalty or torture. There would be no extradition to the United States in such circumstances.
(See Mark Klamberg’s blog for further information on this.)

Four: “The Swedes should interview Assange in London”

This is currently the most popular contention of Assange’s many vocal supporters. But this too is based on a misunderstanding.
Assange is not wanted merely for questioning.
He is wanted for arrest.
This arrest is for an alleged crime in Sweden as the procedural stage before charging (or “indictment”). Indeed, to those who complain that Assange has not yet been charged, the answer is simple: he cannot actually be charged until he is arrested.
It is not for any person accused of rape and sexual assault to dictate the terms on which he is investigated, whether it be Assange or otherwise. The question is whether the Swedish investigators can now, at this stage of the process, arrest Assange.
Here the best guide is the High Court judgment. In paragraph 140, the Court sets out the prosecutor’s position, and this should be read in full be anyone following this case:
140. Mr Assange contended prior to the hearing before the Senior District Judge that the warrant had been issued for the purpose of questioning Mr Assange rather than prosecuting him and that he was not accused of an offence. In response to that contention, shortly before that hearing, Mrs Ny provided a signed statement dated 11 February 2011 on behalf of the Prosecutor:
"6. A domestic warrant for [Julian Assange's] arrest was upheld [on] 24 November 2010 by the Court of Appeal, Sweden. An arrest warrant was issued on the basis that Julian Assange is accused with probable cause of the offences outlined on the EAW.
"7. According to Swedish law, a formal decision to indict may not be taken at the stage that the criminal process is currently at. Julian Assange's case is currently at the stage of "preliminary investigation". It will only be concluded when Julian Assange is surrendered to Sweden and has been interrogated.
"8. The purpose of a preliminary investigation is to investigate the crime, provide underlying material on which to base a decision concerning prosecution and prepare the case so that all evidence can be presented at trial. Once a decision to indict has been made, an indictment is filed with the court. In the case of a person in pre-trial detention, the trial must commence within 2 weeks. Once started, the trial may not be adjourned. It can, therefore be seen that the formal decision to indict is made at an advanced stage of the criminal proceedings. There is no easy analogy to be drawn with the English criminal procedure. I issued the EAW because I was satisfied that there was substantial and probable cause to accuse Julian Assange of the offences.
"9. It is submitted on Julian Assange's behalf that it would be possible for me to interview him by way of Mutual Legal Assistance. This is not an appropriate course in Assange's case. The preliminary investigation is at an advanced stage and I consider that is necessary to interrogate Assange, in person, regarding the evidence in respect of the serious allegations made against him.
"10. Once the interrogation is complete it may be that further questions need to be put to witnesses or the forensic scientists. Subject to any matters said by him, which undermine my present view that he should be indicted, an indictment will be lodged with the court thereafter. It can therefore be seen that Assange is sought for the purpose of conducting criminal proceedings and that he is not sought merely to assist with our enquiries."
And in paragraph 160 of the same judgment, the High Court explains why such a requirement is not “disproportionate” as submitted by Assange’s lawyers:
160. We would add that although some criticism was made of Ms Ny in this case, it is difficult to say, irrespective of the decision of the Court of Appeal of Svea, that her failure to take up the offer of a video link for questioning was so unreasonable as to make it disproportionate to seek Mr Assange's surrender, given all the other matters raised by Mr Assange in the course of the proceedings before the Senior District Judge.
The Prosecutor must be entitled to seek to apply the provisions of Swedish law to the procedure once it has been determined that Mr Assange is an accused and is required for the purposes of prosecution.
Under the law of Sweden the final stage occurs shortly before trial. Those procedural provisions must be respected by us given the mutual recognition and confidence required by the Framework Decision; to do otherwise would be to undermine the effectiveness of the principles on which the Framework Decision is based. In any event, we were far from persuaded that other procedures suggested on behalf of Mr Assange would have proved practicable or would not have been the subject of lengthy dispute.

Five: “By giving Assange asylum, Ecuador is protecting freedom of the press”

This is perhaps the strangest proposition.
Ecuador has a woeful record on freedom of the press. It is 104th in the index of world press freedom, and even the quickest glance at the examples of press abuse in Ecuador accumulated by Reporters Without Borders and Index on Censorship indicate a regime with a starkly dreadful and illiberal record on freedom of expression.
It has even recently been reported that a blogger called Alexander Barankov is to be extradited by Ecuador to Belarus, of all places, where he may face the death penalty.
Whatever the reason for Ecuador granting political asylum to Assange, there is no basis for seeing it as based on any sincere concern for media freedom either in Ecuador or elsewhere.
 
I don't normally agree with a lot of George's left wing posturing but he's right about this. Predictably every single issue group has come out of the woodwork to attack him.

See from 2:55 onwards.

 
I don't normally agree with a lot of George's left wing posturing but he's right about this. Predictably every single issue group has come out of the woodwork to attack him.

See from 2:55 onwards.

I LOVE George Galloway. I've met him. He walks around with a visible aura over his head. I'm serious. I've seen it.

There is one thing FOR sure. He will NEVER be invited back to speak to the US Senate .. and they will NEVER accuse him of something they can't prove ever again.

Take 4 minutes to watch this video. They were accusing him of selling oil for Saddam.


I love that man.
 
I am more pissed off at the reported £50,000 a day to keep police outside the Ecuadorian embassy. Assange has committed no crime in the UK so why the fuck don't they just tell him to leave the country and if he chooses to go somewhere else other than Sweden, then who cares.

I imagine you have treaties. You are both members of the EU, for one.
 
I still don't understand why the US hasn't applied directly to extradite Assange, we seem to just roll over and present our hindquarters whenever you guys even ask. Maybe this article in the New Statesman helps to explain it all. I do find it surprising that sex with someone asleep is also considered rape in England.

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/david-allen-green/2012/08/legal-myths-about-assange-extradition
Cause he's protected in the US under 1st ammendment rights.
 
I LOVE George Galloway. I've met him. He walks around with a visible aura over his head. I'm serious. I've seen it.

There is one thing FOR sure. He will NEVER be invited back to speak to the US Senate .. and they will NEVER accuse him of something they can't prove ever again.

Take 4 minutes to watch this video. They were accusing him of selling oil for Saddam.


I love that man.

Yes, he certainly showed up that bunch of pompous arseholes on that committee, however he has another side to him as well. He has also pissed off the women in his own Respect party over his comments. I don't know how he manages to balance his left wing views with those of his constituents who are Muslim and conservative for the most part.

 
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