Get Housing Industry Out Of The Tax Code?

Althea said:
Spot on? He directly contradicted the Lehman shill's claim that people buy homes as an investment.

Assume everyone rents. The price of rent is often the same as a mortgage, or more. In many states, the escrow for prop. taxes is more of the monthly nut than the mortgage. But, with rents going up, the cost is almost identical.

So you have 10 years in, with absolutely no equity. If you owned, that equity could get you better terms for a loan if you needed one. As you address on a weekly basis, there are tax advantages to owning a home, but let's set that aside for people like yourself, who refuse to take those tax credits.

If you rent, you never know what your monthly costs will be year over year. You are subject to the sale of the house, which opens up other problems.

But...focusing on the investment aspect only, which is NOT the reason most people own homes, how can it be a better investment to throw away money on rent, leaving nothing for investment elsewhere?
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Seriously, you should really let someone else manage your money as you are completely incapable of doing so yourself.

My argument isn't that renting is a better investment than owning a house. My argument isn't that there aren't very good reasons to own a home. My argument is VERY clear. If you buy a single family home that you are going to live in as a means to "invest" money, you are a fool. It is a lousy investment. I have done the math in another thread. When people try to figure out what their investment in their home is, they rarely if ever calculate the total cost of ownership which includes interest, insurance, property taxes, maintenance and repairs etc.

It is a poor investment
 
cawacko said:
This isnt about Trump. The debate over whether housing is consumption or an investment didn't start in 2017 nor did debate over the tax code.
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Part both, wouldn't you say? Depends on many factors.
We bought a house that is in an ok neighborhood but got it for the view and accessibility to a park and creek and the small clump of woods in the back yard.
The garden and landscaping we've done ourselves could be on a city garden tour if we desired.
We redid or made significant improvements on every room and made additions. We'll never get our money back on all that because one neighbor is a white trash hoarder and the rest of the neighborhood is avg. Once we sell we'll never get the money back we put into it although I'm sure it's the most valuable in the 'hood.
But it's been paid for completely for yrs. now and we enjoy living in it.
If we bought a house looking only at it as an investment we could have found better. We also could have easily afforded the McMansion in a gated community and still be paying the mortgage. That would have been more consumption.
 
I Love America said:
Seriously, you should really let someone else manage your money as you are completely incapable of doing so yourself.

My argument isn't that renting is a better investment than owning a house. My argument isn't that there aren't very good reasons to own a home. My argument is VERY clear. If you buy a single family home that you are going to live in as a means to "invest" money, you are a fool. It is a lousy investment. I have done the math in another thread. When people try to figure out what their investment in their home is, they rarely if ever calculate the total cost of ownership which includes interest, insurance, property taxes, maintenance and repairs etc.

It is a poor investment
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Again, this is spot on. I own my condo and I own an investment property. For my investment property I have multiple spreadsheets detailing every cent I spend on the property. For my personal residence I have none of that.

And Althea, I have no clue where you got the idea I don't take advantage of tax credits. There are all kinds of tax advantages available to those who own investment property and you better believe I use them. And I take what's available on my personal residence as well.
 
Getin the ring said:
you don't really offer valid debate with the OP.

Assuming you are trying to argue Trumps tax plan, code, implementation of both, DONT.
Trump lives this kind of stuff. You can almost assume he has thought it all through with the results being financial success.

Your home is the only legitimate investment you and I and most Americans will ever make.
You don't have enough money to make money on the market, nor will you ever. the market is for the big boys. You and I at best can look at it as a savings plan. Which is fine, it is that and if it makes us some change that's fine too.
But it is also at the whim of big investors. Wall street could yank your little pittance of wealth out from under you over night. It's happened before and it will happen again.

What middle class America needs to hope for is that we can buy a home, the economy supports growth. the kind of growth that makes you earn more money, so home prices will continue to rise and you have equity.
Again,, this economic growth is just part of Trumps vision. We need to let him work his magic. he's in it for all of us this time. I like having a made billionaire in charge of my financial future. really in charge.
And if the dingbats get out of his way we may all prosper.
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You had me until you sucked off trump again...trump is a failure. He's not a 'made' billionaire. He defaulted on almost $1 billion in personal debt after declaring bankruptcy at least 4 times. He's not the guy you want in charge of your economic future, unless you think you can talk a bank into 'forgiving' your mortgage, and letting you keep your house.
 
aloysious said:
Part both, wouldn't you say? Depends on many factors.
We bought a house that is in an ok neighborhood but got it for the view and accessibility to a park and creek and the small clump of woods in the back yard.
The garden and landscaping we've done ourselves could be on a city garden tour if we desired.
We redid or made significant improvements on every room and made additions. We'll never get our money back on all that because one neighbor is a white trash hoarder and the rest of the neighborhood is avg. Once we sell we'll never get the money back we put into it although I'm sure it's the most valuable in the 'hood.
But it's been paid for completely for yrs. now and we enjoy living in it.
If we bought a house looking only at it as an investment we could have found better. We also could have easily afforded the McMansion in a gated community and still be paying the mortgage. That would have been more consumption.
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You touch on something that I hadn't addressed. I have clear title on two properties. That kind of blows up the flawed premise in the OP
 
cawacko said:
Again, this is spot on. I own my condo and I own an investment property. For my investment property I have multiple spreadsheets detailing every cent I spend on the property. For my personal residence I have none of that.

And Althea, I have no clue where you got the idea I don't take advantage of tax credits. There are all kinds of tax advantages available to those who own investment property and you better believe I use them. And I take what's available on my personal residence as well.
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I know you do. But you shouldn't, if you believe the crap you post here about undoing the tax advantages.
 
Althea said:
I know you do. But you shouldn't, if you believe the crap you post here about undoing the tax advantages.
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LOL, it's crap to discuss eliminating the M.I.D.? So we shouldn't talk about changing anything? Do you think those who believe taxes should be higher should currently pay more in taxes than the law requires?
 
cawacko said:
LOL, it's crap to discuss eliminating the M.I.D.? So we shouldn't talk about changing anything? Do you think those who believe taxes should be higher should currently pay more in taxes than the law requires?
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She seems afraid to acknowledge simple facts that don't support her agenda.
 
I Love America said:
Seriously, you should really let someone else manage your money as you are completely incapable of doing so yourself.

My argument isn't that renting is a better investment than owning a house. My argument isn't that there aren't very good reasons to own a home. My argument is VERY clear. If you buy a single family home that you are going to live in as a means to "invest" money, you are a fool. It is a lousy investment. I have done the math in another thread. When people try to figure out what their investment in their home is, they rarely if ever calculate the total cost of ownership which includes interest, insurance, property taxes, maintenance and repairs etc.

It is a poor investment
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For me, home ownership is about pride, roots, family, community, etc. Whenever people bring-up such things as equity, I just shrug my shoulders at them.
 
Threedee said:
For me, home ownership is about pride, roots, family, community, etc. Whenever people bring-up such things as equity, I just shrug my shoulders at them.
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That's the point about home ownership being about consumption and not an investment.
 
Threedee said:
For me, home ownership is about pride, roots, family, community, etc. Whenever people bring-up such things as equity, I just shrug my shoulders at them.
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I also made out better on equity and selling my single family home then my friend who sold her duplex, we both retired within months of each other. The market in Anchorage is depressed and rent is falling. They had to put a lot of money into the rental unit too because renters were smokers. Security deposit wasn’t enough to cover the damage. Sheetrock was permiated! They had the house fogged, still couldn’t get the smell out.
 
Covfefe said:
I also made out better on equity and selling my single family home then my friend who sold her duplex, we both retired within months of each other. The market in Anchorage is depressed and rent is falling. They had to put a lot of money into the rental unit too because renters were smokers. Security deposit wasn’t enough to cover the damage. Sheetrock was permiated! They had the house fogged, still couldn’t get the smell out.
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If we ever do become landlords of a rental property, I'll have to remember to ensure the contract stipulates non-smoking, and carries a hefty fee.
 
cawacko said:
That's the point about home ownership being about consumption and not an investment.
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Heck, I own a permanent life insurance policy through the Knights of Columbus (which will be paid-up in ten years) and another one was specially sold to me as a member of the Active Guard/Reserve. Most serious investors turn their nose up at the ROI value of permanent life insurance. At the very least, I like the low interest rates offered for taking out a loan against either policy, compared with the rest of the marketplace. The Guard one is very cheap for what it offers, and the Knights policy generates charity for the organization, which is something that I support.
 
Threedee said:
For me, home ownership is about pride, roots, family, community, etc. Whenever people bring-up such things as equity, I just shrug my shoulders at them.
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Those are all good reasons to own a home. You should pay it off as quickly as possible.

You will get all sorts of advice not to, but that advice is proffered by people who want to keep you a slave to debt

Economic freedom is having zero debt. You sleep better at night
 
Teflon Don said:
Those are all good reasons to own a home. You should pay it off as quickly as possible.

You will get all sorts of advice not to, but that advice is proffered by people who want to keep you a slave to debt

Economic freedom is having zero debt. You sleep better at night
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Exactly. Live within your means, not your neighbors or the Jone's down the block.
 
Threedee said:
Heck, I own a permanent life insurance policy through the Knights of Columbus (which will be paid-up in ten years) and another one was specially sold to me as a member of the Active Guard/Reserve. Most serious investors turn their nose up at the ROI value of permanent life insurance. At the very least, I like the low interest rates offered for taking out a loan against either policy, compared with the rest of the marketplace. The Guard one is very cheap for what it offers, and the Knights policy generates charity for the organization, which is something that I support.
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I was talked out of whole life for the reason you stated. I was advised to simply invest that amount and would beat the return. They sold me term.
Pretty cool outfit that tests your knowledge on health issues and only qualifies you if you have run at least two official marathons in the last two years
or triathlons. I don't know if it's a gimmick or not but the rate was indeed lower than my non smoking wife who is 9 years my junior. and the underwriter is grade A
so I suppose its AOK
 
aloysious said:
Part both, wouldn't you say? Depends on many factors.
We bought a house that is in an ok neighborhood but got it for the view and accessibility to a park and creek and the small clump of woods in the back yard.
The garden and landscaping we've done ourselves could be on a city garden tour if we desired.
We redid or made significant improvements on every room and made additions. We'll never get our money back on all that because one neighbor is a white trash hoarder and the rest of the neighborhood is avg. Once we sell we'll never get the money back we put into it although I'm sure it's the most valuable in the 'hood.
But it's been paid for completely for yrs. now and we enjoy living in it.
If we bought a house looking only at it as an investment we could have found better. We also could have easily afforded the McMansion in a gated community and still be paying the mortgage. That would have been more consumption.
Click to expand...

That's pretty funny. I am not getting down on you when I say the advice I've heard (cliche ) is to buy the worst house in the best neighborhood. Seems you did the exact opposite.
 
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