Getting tighter...

Damocles said:
Most of them still are or won't vote at all, they're pissed because these ads make an assumption that women vote solely on their gentials. But then I have a feeling you didn't read the whole of the post.
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I read it, I still don't believe most of the women you know vote Democrat.
 
Rana said:
I read it, I still don't believe most of the women you know vote Democrat.
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And you base this on what? Is it just what you want to believe about me that drives you to ignore what I say for what you really want to feel?
 
Damocles said:
And you base this on what? Is it just what you want to believe about me that drives you to ignore what I say for what you really want to feel?
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Based on the fact that most people surround themselves with people who think the same way they do.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Polls show people trust Obama and Democrats far more than Republicans on foreign policy, and rightfully so.
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not far more. Pew showed obama only up by 4% in the recent poll. I would link but the site seems to be down atm


and #2. He can't politicize any current national security issues. The potential for blowback is to great. I don't think he can do that so he'll probably play it safe and come out as a moderate internationalist.
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LOL, I see. So the area where Obama might be the weakest, Romney should just not mention it all. Everything in this election is "politicized." By both sides. That's what an election does. The economy, jobs, taxes, etc have all been politicized and most of those issues have worked out just fine for romney.


He ended the immoral war in Iraq.
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We still have troops there. What's different now then 3 months ago? Also he ended it on bush's timetable if I am not mistaken.

He's drawing down the war in Afghanistan and he had OBL killed and has decimated the ranks of Al Qaeda, not to mention the role he played in the downfall of Qhadaffi.
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Your bias is starting to show . .

that's a losing argument for Romney in Ohio where outside of Wright Pat we don't really have any major millitary bases.
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This I sort of agree with.

Here is the thing, most americans don't give a shit about foreign policy this election. They really, really really don't. It's no where near the top issues for voters.

I think every second Romney isn't talking about jobs, the economy, and taxes (issues voters overwhelmingly favor Romney on), is a wasted opportunity for him. Even if he wins on the merits, voters might just go "meh"

Thus, I think this debate is going to have a more broader tone, at least from the Romney camp. Everything is going to come down to how much the american public can't trust the president. How he's an overall ineffective leader. That's the message they are trying to send.

Romney is going to want to hammer out the image that he's a more capable leader, and the "fix it guy" waiting in the wings to come in and clean the whole mess of a nation up.

What I expect from obama is actually a more positive spin and less attacking romney specifically.

A) You cannot really attack someone on things they haven't done. You can only focus on what they might do
B) Obama has pulled his negative advertising of Romney now. He's almost running exclusively positive message ads for himself. It would go against his message at this point to really get into the fray in the debate. This is the debate where he gets to list off things he's actually accomplished. So he's going to do that. A lot.

Big themes of this debate: Trust & Leadership.
 
Rana said:
Based on the fact that most people surround themselves with people who think the same way they do.
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LMAO... you should see my group of friends. It is truly amusing when the left wingers and right wingers in the group start talking politics. People who surround themselves in an echo chamber are quite sad.
 
If the election were based on yard signs in my neighborhood Romney would win in a landslide, Ive only seen two Obama/Biden signs.
 
Damocles said:
I think that is a good thing, women don't only vote as a huge vagina/uterus, they actually have more than one issue. Here we've gotten all the Obama supporter ads with "vote like your female parts depend on it", I don't think it is helping them gain supporters though, most women I know are pissed that they are thought of as voting as a vagina by these ads, not as a person. And before some idiot comes in here and says I only know R women, they have no idea... I work in a place where I have maybe 5 out of 100 people who aren't a D and in the Union, most of the people I spend the most time with are not republican.
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I think you hit on something here, and I don't think it will really be acknowledged until after the election. I happen to personally know some strong independent women across America, who are certainly not "right wing" in their general views, but have been really turned off by the Democrat's message that Romney "won't stand up for women." As one of them put it, "I don't want a president to 'stand up' for me as a woman, I don't need to be stood up for, I need a fair shot and to be judged on merit of my ability and nothing more." I think it has offended many women, to have Democrats patronize them like this, and try and make the election about "women's issues." I think the strategy has backfired, as many strong independent women simply aren't looking for the government to give them special treatment.
 
If you told Mitt Romney 6 weeks ago that he would be tied or leading in most polls with 15 days left until Election day, he would take those odds, do all of you agree?

We all know that this is going to come down to the swing states, and the independent & undecided voters. Undecided voters tend to go against the incumbent. They have had 4 years with Obama, and if they were going to back him, they likely would have decided to already. Romney has to feel good about his chances, and so do his supporters.

As far as the Foreign Policy being way down on the list of voter's concerns, I disagree. Jobs, Gas, the economy, etc, all very important and no doubt,way up the ladder on people's minds, but we are seeing a rapidly eroding middle east, nuclear issues in Iran, and proof that we are still in the crosshairs of terrorists as evidenced on 9/11/12 in Libya. Whoever is President is going to have to deal with all of these issues and they will have an impact on our security & economy, so I suspect more people care about foreign policy then don't care about it. Another issue is CHINA, and our relationship(dependency)on them, the outsourcing, etc, and that ties right back into the economy.
 
morf13 said:
If you told Mitt Romney 6 weeks ago that he would be tied or leading in most polls with 15 days left until Election day, he would take those odds, do all of you agree?

We all know that this is going to come down to the swing states, and the independent & undecided voters. Undecided voters tend to go against the incumbent. They have had 4 years with Obama, and if they were going to back him, they likely would have decided to already. Romney has to feel good about his chances, and so do his supporters.

As far as the Foreign Policy being way down on the list of voter's concerns, I disagree. Jobs, Gas, the economy, etc, all very important and no doubt,way up the ladder on people's minds, but we are seeing a rapidly eroding middle east, nuclear issues in Iran, and proof that we are still in the crosshairs of terrorists as evidenced on 9/11/12 in Libya. Whoever is President is going to have to deal with all of these issues and they will have an impact on our security & economy, so I suspect more people care about foreign policy then don't care about it. Another issue is CHINA, and our relationship(dependency)on them, the outsourcing, etc, and that ties right back into the economy.
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What exactly do you think we are dependent upon China for?
 
"What exactly do you think we are dependent upon China for?"

MONEY! A third of every dollar we are spending is from China.
 
morf13 said:
"What exactly do you think we are dependent upon China for?"

MONEY! A third of every dollar we are spending is from China.
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Nonsense. They have not been a major buyer of our debt for several years. The Federal Reserve has been the largest buyer of late (about 60% last year), because no one else is willing to step in and buy more. About 1% of our new debt last year was bought by foreign countries.
 
Superfreak said:
Nonsense. They have not been a major buyer of our debt for several years. The Federal Reserve has been the largest buyer of late (about 60% last year), because no one else is willing to step in and buy more. About 1% of our new debt last year was bought by foreign countries.
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Can you source any of this?
 
Here's a chart of U.S. government debt held by private investors (green line), foreign and international investors (red line) and the Federal Reserve (blue line). It doesn't support what you're saying SF:

fredgraph.png
 
General Buck Turgidson said:
Here's a chart of U.S. government debt held by private investors (green line), foreign and international investors (red line) and the Federal Reserve (blue line). It doesn't support what you're saying SF:
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Learn the difference between new debt issuance and all debt.

Second, I showed where China's holdings have gone down over the past year... not up.
 
Superfreak said:
Learn the difference between new debt issuance and all debt.
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I'm aware of the difference. Do you have a better metric you'd like to use that shows support for your position?


Superfreak said:
Second, I showed where China's holdings have gone down over the past year... not up.
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China's holdings have got down, but they're certainly still a major buyer of our debt and Japan is certainly making up the difference. The idea that "no one is willing to step in and buy more" is ludicrous. U.S. government debt is very popular and people and entities, both foreign and domestic, are buying the shit out of it. That's why we have historically low nominal interest rates and negative real interest rates on short and medium-term debt.
 
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