"God is dead"

Go back and read your take on Nietzsche and religion. There is a camp of scholars who argue that Socrates is the alter ego of Plato. Hitchens makes a good comparison of Socrates and Jesus being ghost. Philosophers are not real until they write it down.

I have never heard a reputable scholar of antiquity say Socrates was a fictional character.

Christopher Hitchens is not a scholar of antiquity, I do not think he even has a PhD, and as far as I can tell he became a militant atheist who made it a goal to troll Christians.

I do not deny there possibly might be scholars of antiquity who consider Socrates and Jesus to be fictional characters, but they are too few and way to far outside the mainstream to be given much weight.
 
I have never heard a reputable scholar of antiquity say Socrates was a fictional character.

Christopher Hitchens is not a scholar of antiquity, I do not think he even has a PhD, and as far as I can tell he became a militant atheist who made it a goal to troll Christians.

I do not deny there possibly might be scholars of antiquity who consider Socrates and Jesus to be fictional characters, but they are too few and way to far outside the mainstream to be given much weight.
Can we agree the dialogues of Socrates are fiction? If so what makes you think he is real? Again, Plato was able to say things he was afraid to say through his fictional character Socrates. Scholars debate this as much as they debate the existence of Jesus.
 
Can we agree the dialogues of Socrates are fiction? If so what makes you think he is real? Again, Plato was able to say things he was afraid to say through his fictional character Socrates. Scholars debate this as much as they debate the existence of Jesus.

Yes, obviously Plato put some of his own ideas into Socrates' character in the dialogues. Socrates was a historical person, and people knew who he was -- so it would have looked foolish if Plato utterly misrepresented Socrates' general outlook on the human condition.

Plato obviously held his teacher Socrates in the highest esteem, but we will never be sure how much of the dialogues represented Plato's thinking as directly influenced by Socrates.

Probably most of The Republic is straight from the mind of Plato, but he undoutedly was influenced by the Socratic method and the moral philosophy of Socrates.

There is no genuine debate among reputable scholars of antiquity about the historicity of Socrates and Jesus.
 
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Yes, obviously Plato put some of his own ideas into Socrates' character in the dialogues. Socrates was a historical person, and people knew who he was -- so it would have looked foolish if Plato utterly misrepresented Socrates' general outlook on the human condition.

Plato obviously held his teacher Socrates in the highest esteem, but we will never be sure how much of the dialogues represented Plato's thinking as directly influenced by Socrates.

Probably most of The Republic is straight from the mind of Plato, but he undoutedly was influenced by the Socratic method and the moral philosophy of Socrates.

There is no genuine debate among reputable scholars of antiquity about the historicity of Socrates and Jesus.
Christian scholars believe the bible was directly influenced by Jesus, yet it is argued that the bible is a moral message with Jesus being a fictional character, or that there were many rabbis opposed to war and were spreading the word of a peaceful god which resulted in them being crucified.

I find it odd that 2 of the most influential philosophers never put pen to paper.
 
Christian scholars believe the bible was directly influenced by Jesus, yet it is argued that the bible is a moral message with Jesus being a fictional character, or that there were many rabbis opposed to war and were spreading the word of a peaceful god which resulted in them being crucified.

I find it odd that 2 of the most influential philosophers never put pen to paper.
It is remarkable that any writing survives from the Late Bronze age.

Plato explained why Socrates did not write, and I mentioned it in a previous post.

Jesus was almost certainly illiterate, and could not write. The son of first century peasants from a one horse town, in a backwater province of the Roman Empire almost certainly never went to any school or received any academic education.

Moreover, Jesus was not an "influential" philosopher in his own lifetime. He was a Jewish apocalypticist with a ministry of a couple dozen people in the backwater, rural province of Galilee. He barely would have stood out against the other apocalyptic Jewish teachers of that time.

No one was clamouring for Jesus to write his biography and teachings, which he could not have done anyway due to his probable illiteracy.

The teachings of Jesus were circulated in written form decades after his execution, by highly educated Greek-speakers who recorded the events of Jesus' life based on the oral traditions about his him which were circulating in Palestine and Asia Minor. Paul is who made Jesus a household word by the fourth century.
 
It is remarkable that any writing survives from the Late Bronze age.

Plato explained why Socrates did not write, and I mentioned it in a previous post.

Jesus was almost certainly illiterate, and could not write. The son of first century peasants from a one horse town, in a backwater province of the Roman Empire almost certainly never went to any school or received any academic education.

Moreover, Jesus was not an "influential" philosopher in his own lifetime. He was a Jewish apocalypticist with a ministry of a couple dozen people in the backwater, rural province of Galilee. He barely would have stood out against the other apocalyptic Jewish teachers of that time.

No one was clamouring for Jesus to write his biography and teachings, which he could not have done anyway due to his probable illiteracy.

The teachings of Jesus were circulated in written form decades after his execution, by highly educated Greek-speakers who recorded the events of Jesus' life based on the oral traditions about his him which were circulating in Palestine and Asia Minor. Paul is who made Jesus a household word by the fourth century.
In ancient Greece, the senate would vote for an influential and virtuous Athenian to become a demigod, similar to the way the pope decides who becomes a saint. It was Plato lobbying the senate through Socrates to be voted a demigod. We can see how frustrated Plato becomes when he is not being considered a vote for demigod. If Socrates actually walked the streets of Athens, he certainly would have been voted a demigod postmortem. According to Plato, Athens also held Socrates in high esteem and left a boat for him to escape the city and avoid the hemlock.

We can see the Greek influence on early christianity.
 
In ancient Greece, the senate would vote for an influential and virtuous Athenian to become a demigod, similar to the way the pope decides who becomes a saint. It was Plato lobbying the senate through Socrates to be voted a demigod. We can see how frustrated Plato becomes when he is not being considered a vote for demigod. If Socrates actually walked the streets of Athens, he certainly would have been voted a demigod postmortem. According to Plato, Athens also held Socrates in high esteem and left a boat for him to escape the city and avoid the hemlock.

We can see the Greek influence on early christianity.


you're insane
 
Myths about Friedrich Nietzsche:


-Nietzsche was a Nazi
The Nazi Party formed 20 years after Nietzsche died. Nietzsche was repulsed by his brother in law who was proto-fascist.

-Nietzsche was a nihilist.
Nihilism (the term comes from Russia) is the rejection of all values. Nietzsche is no nihilist, but rejects nihilistic values.

-Nietzsche was hostile toward Christians.
Nietzsche disliked some things about Christianity, particularly what Kierkegaard calls the Christian mob. Nietzsche admired those exceptional Christians (including
Jesus) who really lived what they claimed to believe in.
He objected to the hypocritical and self-righteous attitudes
that some Christians take toward their religious beliefs.

-Nietzsche was power-mad.
His concept of the “will to power” has led many to think he
applauded military conquest. Most of the time, Nietzsche uses the term psychologically, in a context of self improvement.



Source credit, Robert Solomon, PhD, Nietzsche scholar
 
Satan in Judaism is not a physical being ruling the underworld, rather, in the Torah, the word Satan indicates “accuser,” “hinderer” or “tempter.” Satan is therefore more an illusory obstacle in one’s way - such as temptation and evil doings - keeping one from completing the responsibilities of tikkun olam (fixing the world). Satan is the evil inclination to veer off the path of righteousness and faithfulness in God.

Jude 9
 
Myths about Friedrich Nietzsche:


-Nietzsche was a Nazi
The Nazi Party formed 20 years after Nietzsche died. Nietzsche was repulsed by his brother in law who was proto-fascist.

-Nietzsche was a nihilist.
Nihilism (the term comes from Russia) is the rejection of all values. Nietzsche is no nihilist, but rejects nihilistic values.

-Nietzsche was hostile toward Christians.
Nietzsche disliked some things about Christianity, particularly what Kierkegaard calls the Christian mob. Nietzsche admired those exceptional Christians (including
Jesus) who really lived what they claimed to believe in.
He objected to the hypocritical and self-righteous attitudes
that some Christians take toward their religious beliefs.

-Nietzsche was power-mad.
His concept of the “will to power” has led many to think he
applauded military conquest. Most of the time, Nietzsche uses the term psychologically, in a context of self improvement.



Source credit, Robert Solomon, PhD, Nietzsche scholar

Nietzsche was right about organized religion with all the half ass rules that aren't Biblical.
 
nietzche in his famous "god is dead" quote was lamenting the tragedies that would befall a humanity separated from any source of mass morality.

he was predicting the nazi and communist genocides of the 20th century.

totalitarianism is evil, by any moral measure.
 
nietzche in his famous "god is dead" quote was lamenting the tragedies that would befall a humanity separated from any source of mass morality.

he was predicting the nazi and communist genocides of the 20th century.

totalitarianism is evil, by any moral measure.

Nietzsche rejected Christianity, which he saw as a necessary but outdated step in human evolution. Nietzsche was declaring war on the concept of guilt and sin as he percieved they were defined by Christian authority
 
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