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midcan5

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It is so good to see this, republicans are speaking out against the Trump cult.

"Don’t sit quietly and surrender one of America’s great political parties."

'GOP Democracy Report Card' 'Which Republicans supported American democracy when it needed it?'

https://accountability.gop/report-card/


"The bedrock of our democracy is the rule of law and that means we have to have an independent judiciary, judges who can make decisions independent of the political winds that are blowing." Caroline Kennedy


"First, democracy is more than holding elections; it requires the development of civil society, meaning such complex and counterintuitive institutions as the rule of law, an independent judiciary, multiple political parties, minority rights, voluntary associations, freedom of expression, movement, and assembly. Democracy is a learned habit, not an instinctive one, that requires deep attitudinal changes such as a culture of restraint, a commonality of values, a respect for differences of view, the concept of loyal opposition, and a sense of civic responsibility." Daniel Pipes


Reading: 'Hiding in Plain Sight: The Invention of Donald Trump and the Erosion of America'
 
I often hear people say we are not a democracy but a republic. That appears to mean something different from our democracy but what exactly isn't clear.

A republic is: "National sovereignty lies in the authority of the government, not in an emperor or monarch. The word republic comes from the Latin words res publica, meaning a "public thing". For example, the United States and India are republics, but North Korea and Cuba are also called republics."

https://www.britannica.com/topic/republic-government

"Democracy is government by the people especially : rule of the majority. A government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections."

'Does the Constitution mention democracy?'

"The Constitution is organized into three parts. The Constitution established a Federal democratic republic. It is the system of the Federal Government; it is democratic because the people govern themselves; and it is a republic because the Government's power is derived from its people."

Banish word salad, call a spade a spade.
 
midcan5 said:
It is so good to see this, republicans are speaking out against the Trump cult.

"Don’t sit quietly and surrender one of America’s great political parties."

'GOP Democracy Report Card' 'Which Republicans supported American democracy when it needed it?'

https://accountability.gop/report-card/


"The bedrock of our democracy is the rule of law and that means we have to have an independent judiciary, judges who can make decisions independent of the political winds that are blowing." Caroline Kennedy


"First, democracy is more than holding elections; it requires the development of civil society, meaning such complex and counterintuitive institutions as the rule of law, an independent judiciary, multiple political parties, minority rights, voluntary associations, freedom of expression, movement, and assembly. Democracy is a learned habit, not an instinctive one, that requires deep attitudinal changes such as a culture of restraint, a commonality of values, a respect for differences of view, the concept of loyal opposition, and a sense of civic responsibility." Daniel Pipes


Reading: 'Hiding in Plain Sight: The Invention of Donald Trump and the Erosion of America'
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There's a shitload of F's and D's on that list. :laugh:

The Republican party needs to rebuild and, IMO, won't be able to do it until 2026.

Peggy Noonan's article was written August 2020:

https://wacotrib.com/opinion/column...cle_cdda2663-e70d-59bd-b7a4-8617295b1f72.html
Some Never Trumpers helped create the conditions that created President Trump. What would be helpful from them now is not pyromaniac fantasies but constructive modesty, even humility.

The party’s national leaders and strategists don’t have a lot to be proud of the past few decades. The future of the party will probably bubble up from the states.

But it matters that the past six months Mr. Trump has been very publicly doing himself in, mismanaging his crises — setting himself on fire. As long as that’s clear, his supporters won’t be able to say, if he loses, that he was a champion of the people who was betrayed by the party elites, the Never Trumpers and the deep state: “He didn’t lose, he was the victim of treachery.”

Both parties have weaknesses. Liberals enjoy claiming progress that can somehow never quite be quantified. Conservatives like the theme of betrayal.

It will be unhelpful for Republicans, and bad for the country, if that’s the background music of the party next 10 years.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opin...de-washington-move-forward-column/6249743002/
The Republican Party can still make a strong comeback
The Republican Party can once again come back stronger than ever before. But, just like in 1980, we need to look outside of Washington to do it.
 
midcan5 said:
I often hear people say we are not a democracy but a republic. That appears to mean something different from our democracy but what exactly isn't clear.
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I think of the US as a constitutional democracy as opposed to an absolute democracy.

Just as a constitutional monarchy has rules that the monarch must operate within, a constitutional democracy has rules that the democracy must operate within.

The practical meaning to this is, in an absolute democracy the majority could decide to suspend free speech and violate the rights of the minority.

But in a constitutional democracy, if the majority tries to suspend free speech and violate the rights of the minority, then the courts will overrule the majority.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
The Republican party needs to rebuild and, IMO, won't be able to do it until 2026.
Click to expand...
I think they're doing ok. They just need to keep undermining the Biden Administration and making them fail.

Some criminal investigations into the Bidens will be useful as well. Once the Republicans retake the House they can impeach Barack Obama and Joe Biden. Come 2024 the Democrats will be vulnerable and Mr. Trump can win his second term.
 
Anvil Kasseri said:
I think they're doing ok. They just need to keep undermining the Biden Administration and making them fail.

Some criminal investigations into the Bidens will be useful as well. Once the Republicans retake the House they can impeach Barack Obama and Joe Biden. Come 2024 the Democrats will be vulnerable and Mr. Trump can win his second term.
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Awesome. I'd really like to see someone seriously propose that in Congress. A real Kodak moment.
 
Anvil Kasseri said:
I think they're doing ok. They just need to keep undermining the Biden Administration and making them fail.

Some criminal investigations into the Bidens will be useful as well. Once the Republicans retake the House they can impeach Barack Obama and Joe Biden. Come 2024 the Democrats will be vulnerable and Mr. Trump can win his second term.
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SOP. Let's see what happens in 2022. ;)
 
Thanks for input.

But trying to make Biden fail reminds this reader of FDR, some things seem to repeat themselves over and over again. A quote and a book on topic.

"Now it is true that I believe this country is following a dangerous trend when it permits too great a degree of centralization of governmental functions. I oppose this — in some instances the fight is a rather desperate one. But to attain any success it is quite clear that the Federal government cannot avoid or escape responsibilities which the mass of the people firmly believe should be undertaken by it. The political processes of our country are such that if a rule of reason is not applied in this effort, we will lose everything — even to a possible and drastic change in the Constitution. This is what I mean by my constant insistence upon "moderation" in government. Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are H.L. Hunt (you possibly know his background), a few other Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or business man from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid." President Dwight Eisenhower

If you truly want to know how we got here read this history.

"The rise of conservative politics in postwar America is one of the great puzzles of American political history. For much of the period that followed the end of World War II, conservative ideas about the primacy of the free market, and the dangers of too-powerful labor unions, government regulation, and an activist, interventionist state seemed to have been thoroughly rejected by most intellectual and political elites. Scholars and politicians alike dismissed those who adhered to such faiths as a "radical right," for whom to quote the Columbia University historian Richard Hofstadter politics "becomes an arena into which the wildest fancies are projected, the most paranoid suspicions, the most absurd superstitions, the most bizarre apocalyptic fantasies." How, then, did such ideas move from their marginal position in the middle years of the twentieth century to become the reigning politics of the country by the century's end?" Kim Phillips-Fein ('Invisible Hands')
 
Anvil Kasseri said:
I think they're doing ok. They just need to keep undermining the Biden Administration and making them fail.

Some criminal investigations into the Bidens will be useful as well. Once the Republicans retake the House they can impeach Barack Obama and Joe Biden. Come 2024 the Democrats will be vulnerable and Mr. Trump can win his second term.
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Spoken like a true QPatriot! So much brilliance and truth packed into one small sentence... if our goal is defining what the Republiqans stand for. After all, the *only* point, evidently, in voting for (R)s is to destroy whichever (D) administration happens to be in power. Never mind that whole bit about destroying the country too, right? As long as you can have the fascist fuehrer of your choice in power, it's all good. :rolleyes:
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Spoken like a true QPatriot! So much brilliance and truth packed into one small sentence... if our goal is defining what the Republiqans stand for. After all, the *only* point, evidently, in voting for (R)s is to destroy whichever (D) administration happens to be in power. Never mind that whole bit about destroying the country too, right? As long as you can have the fascist fuehrer of your choice in power, it's all good. :rolleyes:
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There are other reasons to vote for Republicans. Protecting our Constitutional gun rights for example.

But since the Democrats rejected Mr. Trump's legitimacy and relentlessly undermined him, it seems perfectly fair for the Republicans to turn around and now do the same to Mr. Biden.
 
Anvil Kasseri said:
There are other reasons to vote for Republicans. Protecting our Constitutional gun rights for example.

But since the Democrats rejected Mr. Trump's legitimacy and relentlessly undermined him, it seems perfectly fair for the Republicans to turn around and now do the same to Mr. Biden.
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Ah yes. The immortal "well, he did it toooo" QOP platform plank. lol
 
I challenge any Trump cult member to read this book. If you are still a fan afterwards I buy you a banana split.

"No one saw it coming,” but what they mean is that they consider the people who saw it coming to be no one. The category of “no one” includes the people smeared by Trump in his propaganda: immigrants, black Americans, Muslim Americans, Native Americans, Latino Americans, LGBT Americans, disabled Americans, and others long maligned and marginalized—groups for whom legally sanctioned American autocracy was not an unfathomable horror, but a personal backstory." Sarah Kendzior

'Hiding in Plain Sight: The Invention of Donald Trump and the Erosion of America'

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/52274929-hiding-in-plain-sight
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Passing lies and hyperbole isn't a sauce good for America.
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It also isn't good for America when the Democrats do it to Republican presidents.

While it won't be good for America for the Republicans to do it back to the Democrats, it will be even worse yet for America if we allow the Democrats to always get away with it without anyone ever standing up to them.
 
midcan5 said:
I challenge any Trump cult member to read this book. If you are still a fan afterwards I buy you a banana split.
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I've not read the book (I hadn't even heard of it until I read your post), but I'll be a fan of Mr. Trump no matter what he does, simply because of his unwavering support for the Second Amendment and his appointment of judges who support the Second Amendment.
 
Anvil Kasseri said:
It also isn't good for America when the Democrats do it to Republican presidents.

While it won't be good for America for the Republicans to do it back to the Democrats, it will be even worse yet for America if we allow the Democrats to always get away with it without anyone ever standing up to them.
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Do what? The same bullshit Republicans have been doing to Democrats for 25 years? I agree it's not good for America. The result was Donald J. Trump. We did it to ourselves.

I will agree that extremism on either side is bad for the nation. This is bad for America: https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/capitol-breach-cases

People shouldn't use violence to overthrow our duly elected government.
 
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Dutch Uncle said:
Do what? The same bullshit Republicans have been doing to Democrats for 25 years?
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The Republicans haven't been doing it for 25 years. The Republican leadership did their best to work with Barack Obama. He was just such an extremist that it was impossible to work with him.


Dutch Uncle said:
This is bad for America: https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/capitol-breach-cases
People shouldn't use violence to overthrow our duly elected government.
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That wasn't an attempt to overthrow the government. That was a peaceful protest against Democratic cheating.

Such a draconian prosecution of peaceful protesters is wrong.
 
Anvil Kasseri said:
The Republicans haven't been doing it for 25 years. The Republican leadership did their best to work with Barack Obama. He was just such an extremist that it was impossible to work with him.

That wasn't an attempt to overthrow the government. That was a peaceful protest against Democratic cheating.

Such a draconian prosecution of peaceful protesters is wrong.
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Obama was only 12 years ago.

The fact remains America has been a little lost since the end of the Cold War. We've been doing it increasingly wrong ever since.

We, the People, need to find a better path.
 
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