Government run healthcare... a Greek tragedy.

Bfgrn said:
I'm sorry. I thought I was talking to an adult. You just want to read one sentence and create your own context without understanding the context of what I said. The fucking profit has NOTHING to do with better care for patients, which is the stakes the patient has in the transaction. It is a model that only benefits the insurance cartels...THAT is not sound economics, it is a travesty.
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you said 'sound economic policy'. you did not describe a 'sound medical and health policy'.

Bfgrn said:
HERE is what I said. Read past the first sentence this time.

"Of course it could work here, because it is based on sound economic theory. The 'for profit' private insurance we have now is not based on sound economic theory. Anyone with a hint of understanding of a market transaction can see that the patient does not have leverage in the transaction. The incentive for the patient is to get the best care. The incentive for the insurance provider is to find a way to deny care to increase profit.

And insurance corporations know they can't compete with a government plan. The Medicare program that we have is a government-run program that has administrative expenses around three percent. Private insurance corporations administrative expense is around 20-30%."
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the patient does indeed have 'leverage' because the patient can avoid paying the insurance company and deal directly with the doctor.

now, the thing that liberals who support this monstrosity of a health care reform should be questioning their mental faculties for the insanity of bitching about the health insurance industry yet forcing people to give them more money.
 
Return of Dune said:
Human nature being what it is? The discussion is about those who can't afford health care. WTF does a financialy comfortable canadien have to do with it?
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your utopian vision of everyone being honest is incredibly naive. whatever though, play stupid if you think it's going to make you look more intelligent....
 
SmarterThanYou said:
your utopian vision of everyone being honest is incredibly naive. whatever though, play stupid if you think it's going to make you look more intelligent....
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Again, do you even know what the topic is about?

I don't have any vision of everyone being honest, where the fuck did that come from? Do you not understand that single payer health care would cost 30% less, yet cover more people?
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
The way that ObamaCare went about it, was oppressive and that does seem to be what the argument is really about.
No one has said that Health Care can't be improved; but the objection is forcing everyone to pay into something, just because the Government says they should.
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That doesn't ring true. Since "The New Deal" people had the opportunity to come up with a plan. Certainly since '65 when Medicare and Medicaid were implemented. What was done during those 45 years? What happened every time someone tried to improve medical care? The problem is some people don't want any changes. They may say they do but after 45 years, or 75 years, it's obvious they don't.

The only way social programs can be implemented, be it welfare or SS or medical care, is by having everyone contribute because everyone wants to get something out of it. There's never been another successful way.

What would you say if the UN decided that since Canada promotes it's health care as being so great, that anyone in the world can use it; but only the Canadians have to pay for it?
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I wouldn't object if Canadians were the only ones who could afford to pay for it. That would mean Canadians would be quite wealthy compared to everyone else. Only the people who can afford to pay for ObamaCare will be paying. The others will be helped.

The strange thing about it all is citizens in every country with government medical insist on keeping it. How can anyone be against the concept of government medical when there is not one country they can point to where the citizens agree with them? Dozens of different government medical plans and every plan is supported by the majority of the respective citizens. In other words there is not one government medical plan that is worse than a private, "pay or suffer" system. We know that because every country started out with such a "pay or suffer" system. If a US government medical plan ended up being worse than the current system it would be the first in the world because it's never happened.

Logic and common sense should tell people that the nay-sayers are not being honest when they express doubts, or worse, spread fear. There has to be another reason they are against government medical because there is nothing to substantiate their fear. Not one government medical plan has been shown to be worse than the "pay or suffer" system it replaced. That's quite an honorable record.
 
SmarterThanYou said:
you said 'sound economic policy'. you did not describe a 'sound medical and health policy'.


the patient does indeed have 'leverage' because the patient can avoid paying the insurance company and deal directly with the doctor.

now, the thing that liberals who support this monstrosity of a health care reform should be questioning their mental faculties for the insanity of bitching about the health insurance industry yet forcing people to give them more money.
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The patient can just deal with the doctor? REALLY?? What the fuck is wrong with you? What if the patient doesn't have a spare $100,000 laying around? WHY the fuck would he have insurance in the first place? To pay for CEO's vacations asshole? So only millionaires can afford treatment for diseases like cancer.

A sound economic policy offers both parties equal benefits. You right wing turds have ZERO understanding of what a free market is based on.

You right wing scum are animals. You don't even deserve to be called human.
 
Bfgrn said:
The patient can just deal with the doctor? REALLY?? What the fuck is wrong with you? What if the patient doesn't have a spare $100,000 laying around? WHY the fuck would he have insurance in the first place? To pay for CEO's vacations asshole? So only millionaires can afford treatment for diseases like cancer.

A sound economic policy offers both parties equal benefits. You right wing turds have ZERO understanding of what a free market is based on.

You right wing scum are animals. You don't even deserve to be called human.
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yeah, you lost once you resorted to the ad homs. have a seat on the dunce stool with taichiliberal.
 
SmarterThanYou said:
yeah, you lost once you resorted to the ad homs. have a seat on the dunce stool with taichiliberal.
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You're an idiot. You can't even comprehend what I'm talking about. You don't have the cognitive ability. The dunce cap goes to people like you who can only think at a child's level.
 
Bfgrn said:
You're an idiot. You can't even comprehend what I'm talking about. You don't have the cognitive ability. The dunce cap goes to people like you who can only think at a child's level.
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who needs any cognitive ability when debating with simpleminded naivete like yours. even dixie has better math ability than you.
 
SmarterThanYou said:
who needs any cognitive ability when debating with simpleminded naivete like yours. even dixie has better math ability than you.
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Just admit that you don't have the intelligence to comprehend what I'm saying. It is 1,000 times better than being a piece of scum that has no morals, ethics or upbringing.
 
Dungheap said:
Actually, no. I'm not at all confused. Our government pays substantially more than the Greek government, and many others than provide universal healthcare, as a percentage of GDP and per capita. Look it up. And then there is private spending on top of it. It's insane.
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My mistake legion dune was in your lack of a clue is comparing Greek toothless hillbillies to americans on healthcare spending. It's obvious your welding school didn't teach economics.
 
Return of Dune said:
So you are oppressed by RomneyCare right now? How are you enduring this oppression? It must be very stressful.

Never mind the fact that as a "conservative", why are you not concerned by the money being wasted in our present system?
The reason is that you are so brainwashed that it is more important to you that the one percent get their pound of flesh from as many people as possible than that the country spend a more reasonable portion of it's wealth on healthcare for all.
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Did you have anything relevant to add to the discussion or is this just you trying to work out the fiber, from that big ole bowl of Bitch-O-Wheat that you had this morning?
 
apple0154 said:
That doesn't ring true. Since "The New Deal" people had the opportunity to come up with a plan. Certainly since '65 when Medicare and Medicaid were implemented. What was done during those 45 years? What happened every time someone tried to improve medical care? The problem is some people don't want any changes. They may say they do but after 45 years, or 75 years, it's obvious they don't.

The only way social programs can be implemented, be it welfare or SS or medical care, is by having everyone contribute because everyone wants to get something out of it. There's never been another successful way.



I wouldn't object if Canadians were the only ones who could afford to pay for it. That would mean Canadians would be quite wealthy compared to everyone else. Only the people who can afford to pay for ObamaCare will be paying. The others will be helped.

The strange thing about it all is citizens in every country with government medical insist on keeping it. How can anyone be against the concept of government medical when there is not one country they can point to where the citizens agree with them? Dozens of different government medical plans and every plan is supported by the majority of the respective citizens. In other words there is not one government medical plan that is worse than a private, "pay or suffer" system. We know that because every country started out with such a "pay or suffer" system. If a US government medical plan ended up being worse than the current system it would be the first in the world because it's never happened.

Logic and common sense should tell people that the nay-sayers are not being honest when they express doubts, or worse, spread fear. There has to be another reason they are against government medical because there is nothing to substantiate their fear. Not one government medical plan has been shown to be worse than the "pay or suffer" system it replaced. That's quite an honorable record.
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Then ObamaCare doesn't ring true; because it's the platform he ran on, had a majority in both homes to put it in place, and failed to follow through.

Stopped reading or considering the rest of your diatribe, once you returned to reciting your mantra of "pay or suffer".
 
Bfgrn said:
Just admit that you don't have the intelligence to comprehend what I'm saying. It is 1,000 times better than being a piece of scum that has no morals, ethics or upbringing.
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just admit that you don't have the intelligence to determine the difference between economics and medicine. and I have no morals, ethics, or upbringing? the irony of that coming from you is almost as funny as seeing it from taichi. you're both total morons. Topspin, on a bad day, has more intelligence in his pinky than you do in your entire body.
 
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