Grok On men's right to know paternity

you don't support it. you're delusional about what I want and what I did.
Why do you think I don't support it? I've read your posts. You've made it very clear what you wanted and what you did. Why do you think I asked you so many questions?

What I find most interesting is that, before 1/6, you answered those questions. After 1/6, not so much. It says a lot about you. LOL
 
Why do you think I don't support it? I've read your posts. You've made it very clear what you wanted and what you did. Why do you think I asked you so many questions?

What I find most interesting is that, before 1/6, you answered those questions. After 1/6, not so much. It says a lot about you. LOL
you don't support it. you support blatantly anti constitutional policies in favor of bigger and stronger government power against those you hate/disagree with.

you don't find it interesting at all. Those questions have been answered more times than hillary was asked about benghazi. you simply choose to ignore the answers you've been given.
 
again, not what I said. curious question. Is reading comprehension something that they teach you leftist idiots? or is it a natural ability, which is why you lean leftist?
You keep running from my questions. Again, that says as much about you are answering them.

You're free to believe I'm a "leftist idiot". Your anger also says something about you. It's true I lean left of Alt-Right. I'm a Libertarian and support the majority of the Libertarian Platform. https://lp.org/platform-page/

I'm socially liberal and fiscally conservative. The fact the Party of Trump keeps blowing money while reducing taxes is as stupid as the actions of the Democrats.
 
You keep running from my questions. Again, that says as much about you are answering them.

You're free to believe I'm a "leftist idiot". Your anger also says something about you. It's true I lean left of Alt-Right. I'm a Libertarian and support the majority of the Libertarian Platform. https://lp.org/platform-page/

I'm socially liberal and fiscally conservative. The fact the Party of Trump keeps blowing money while reducing taxes is as stupid as the actions of the Democrats.
yet, like a leftist, you 'conveniently' ignore anything I say except that which you can twist in to something about me being a racist trumper.............
 
you don't support it. you support blatantly anti constitutional policies in favor of bigger and stronger government power against those you hate/disagree with.

you don't find it interesting at all. Those questions have been answered more times than hillary was asked about benghazi. you simply choose to ignore the answers you've been given.
Please cite a post of mine that supports your claims as I have cited posts of yours to support my claims. No rush, I'll wait. Most JPP members can see that I'll be waiting a long, long time. LOL

Oh, son, I do find it very interesting. How people react is always interesting to me. Do they react mostly with logic or with emotion? It says a lot about a person on which way they lean most of the time. Son, as this thread proves, you provided no answers. Only accusations, insults and lies.
 
I've literally never gotten the sense the female gender hates me.

It's curious that females hating you has been your experience
Same here although I have pissed off a few women in my lifetime. Same goes for men so I doubt it's a gender thing. LOL

Agreed. Men who are misogynists and label any man who gets along with women as a "simp" are clearly not having much luck with love. Probably because they are immature and selfish assholes.
 
Link to US or State laws on this? Grok addresses the issue internationally.

If you don't have one and simply want to bitch about your ex, I get it. Lots of JPP MAGAts are clearly divorced and estranged from their ex's and kids.
which state backs a father's right to know paternity before he is made to pay child support?

none of them do.

men have no reproductive rights.

It's all her choice and he will be made to pay support for kids that are not his.
 
gynocetric society disagrees.
And men respond...

63e87e44ec3c4.image.jpg


"The house is all yours, BITCH!"
 
It is impossible to fathom how so much undisguised hatred of men has become the norm in todays society that most women have absolute zero issue with forcing any man to provide for a child that isn't theirs, or hide the fact that they got pregnant by chad and to keep that secret from the man they 'settled' for.

police your gender
When I read your posts, all I can think of is that either you or someone close to you got screwed over by a "dishonest" woman, and now you believe that all most women are evil. All Most women now have to take the blame for someone's experience that they're not responsible for.

No man or woman has to "settle." There are legal ways to get out of this predicament and I'm sure they're not cheap but better than the alternative.
 
Yes. It should be "A couple's right to choose."

1. If he wants an abortion and she doesn't, then the child is hers and hers alone. The man has no further part in this.
2. If both want it, then they work out the arrangements on that mutually.
3. If she wants an abortion and he doesn't, then she carries the baby to term with him paying ALL medical expenses and the child is turned over to him once born and viable. She has no further responsibility.
4. If they are legally married, then they have to decide mutually on the outcome.

That's fair and equal. Both get an equal say on the outcome.
I numbered your comments to make this easier.

I agree with #'s 2 and 4.

#3, if she wants an abortion and he doesn't, he has no right to demand that she carry a fetus to term. She can have an abortion without his say-so because it's her body.

#1, it often works out that the man walks away and the woman takes sole responsibility for the baby. Yet the child will never be hers and hers alone, because the child has 50% of his genetic material whether he likes it or not. I get that it all boils down to money for men, but there is a moral responsibility involved. If neither used BC, then tough luck for both of them.
 
When I read your posts, all I can think of is that either you or someone close to you got screwed over by a "dishonest" woman, and now you believe that all most women are evil. All Most women now have to take the blame for someone's experience that they're not responsible for.

No man or woman has to "settle." There are legal ways to get out of this predicament and I'm sure they're not cheap but better than the alternative.
Excellent observation. Notice that most beta males whine a lot.
 
I think the debate is that, if a woman becomes pregnant and the man doesn't want the baby, then why is the man forced to pay half of the costs of birth through college?

The laws vary, but there does seem to be an inequity here. OTOH, it's the Euro-American male MAGAts who are seeking to ban abortion so WTF?
This is beating a dead horse but if both parties didn't use BC, why should the woman have all the responsibility if she doesn't want an abortion, while the man gets to walk away scot-free? It's axiomatic that unprotected sex can result in a pregnancy. Both may want to gamble that it won't happen but that's foolhardy. It's not equality for the man to walk away when he was a willing participant in the sex that resulted in an unplanned pregnancy.
 
I numbered your comments to make this easier.

I agree with #'s 2 and 4.

#3, if she wants an abortion and he doesn't, he has no right to demand that she carry a fetus to term. She can have an abortion without his say-so because it's her body.

If that's so, then the man has no liability to pay child support if she carries the baby to term. That's fair and equal as well as follows standard contract law.
#1, it often works out that the man walks away and the woman takes sole responsibility for the baby. Yet the child will never be hers and hers alone, because the child has 50% of his genetic material whether he likes it or not. I get that it all boils down to money for men, but there is a moral responsibility involved. If neither used BC, then tough luck for both of them.
That's why it should be A couple's right to choose, not A woman's right to choose. If she wants child support, then he gets a say while the baby is still in her womb. If it's only her getting a say, then the baby's hers when born and the man is just a sperm donor.

That's fair and equal.

Your version makes it to the woman's advantage either way with the man having no say in the outcome. That's unfair and unequal leaving the man out of the decision process.
 
That is not what anyone is saying and you know it. The issue is that if women have the 'right' to opt out of motherhood via abortion, then men should have the right to opt out of fatherhood by not having to pay child support.
Yeah I know it's all about the money for men. Forget that the child he helped to create has 50% of his genetic material. Forget that the woman will spend the next 18 years being the sole caregiver and provider for that man's child.

Just find every way you can to put the onus of the pregnancy on the woman alone.
 
If that's so, then the man has no liability to pay child support if she carries the baby to term. That's fair and equal as well as follows standard contract law.

That's why it should be A couple's right to choose, not A woman's right to choose. If she wants child support, then he gets a say while the baby is still in her womb. If it's only her getting a say, then the baby's hers when born and the man is just a sperm donor.

That's fair and equal.

Your version makes it to the woman's advantage either way with the man having no say in the outcome. That's unfair and unequal leaving the man out of the decision process.
None of this involves contract law.

"A picture valid for most modern jurisdictions, common and civil law alike.

First, it is good to understand that the child support is owed to the child and not to their mother.

It may be the mother who manages the child support, but it is clear that the mother manages the funds as an implied trustee of a child and not as a beneficiary.

There are cases when both genetic parents are forced to pay child support for a child born by a surrogate mother and even more cases when the mother is forced to pay child support to a child who lives with the father.

The whole idea of the child support stems from the fact that the child is not an object owned by its parents, but a separate human being and even a citizen with its own rights, including, but not limited to, the right to get an adequate and responsible parental care until their adulthood.

The moment when the child becomes a human being with its own rights varies by jurisdiction and is either the moment of birth, the moment of conception or some other point in between.

The responsible parenting is owed by both parents and the obligation cannot be contractually altered or transferred to other parties because it does not emerge from a contract in the first place. The existence of a child alone implies the obligation.

This is much like the taxes - you owe them, period.

The rights of the child are legally protected to a higher extent and with a higher priority than almost whatever other rights the parents may have. This is because the child is considered a vulnerable member of the society.

The question of the intent (or lack thereof) of conceiving a child is so much minor in this context that it is almost never considered in the court proceedings.

This is a profound contrast to the penal proceedings where the intent is a central point. Being a parent is not a crime in itself, so the intent is not important. You are either a parent, or not - and the possible intent is only good as long as it helps determining your status as a parent.

The parenting obligation can be transferred by other means, e.g. by adoption, but the whole adoption concept is also shaped around the interests and the rights of the child.


In regard to the "consensual sex":

The traditional view of this thing is that both men and women engage in sexual intercourse with the clear knowledge that a conception is a possible outcome. Yes, it implies a great level of trust between the partners.

As much traditional is the understanding that a woman cannot escape the parental obligations, but a man can - because he can plausibly deny the fathership.

This possibility has never been a "men's right" in the first place, it was just that - a possibility to avoid fulfilling a legal and moral obligation.

It is no more that much easy because of the technological and the social advance and not because something happened to the "men's rights".

It is also not much of a discrimination - the obligation is for both parents and this was never really disputed.

 
This is beating a dead horse but if both parties didn't use BC, why should the woman have all the responsibility if she doesn't want an abortion, while the man gets to walk away scot-free? It's axiomatic that unprotected sex can result in a pregnancy. Both may want to gamble that it won't happen but that's foolhardy. It's not equality for the man to walk away when he was a willing participant in the sex that resulted in an unplanned pregnancy.
The woman choosing to carry is a personal choice. Be careful there since most MAGAts want to take away that choice.

The choice of not using birth control is mutual. Ergo, both are equally held responsible. If the woman becomes pregnant and chooses to carry, the man should only be held responsible for half the abortion cost. If women push their choices onto men, then they are effectively giving up some rights.

I support a woman's right to choose. Men shouldn't have to pay for that choice unless it's half the cost of an abortion. By pushing to ban abortion, men should be held accountable for their half of the child. The MAGAt Beta Males want it both ways. Fuck them. They are stupid and weak.
 
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