Hardline Sunni cleric willing to meet

[Sir Evil]

I was overzealous. The blood is on Bush's hands - not yours. I have no idea what level of support you gave or continue to give. You are a reasonable guy and I do not want to give you the impression that I feel differently.

Ok, ya had me fooled there for a minute maine!

Listen, Bush will be in office for a while yet so I am not drawing a conclusion just yet one way or another. I posted in a thread somewhere here that I thought one of the bigger problems this administration has is being vocal about anything.
I honestly don't know what he has taken accountability for, bit I do recall Rumsfeld taking responsibilty for abu gharib, and hate me for this but I can think of worse things that incident.

 

[Damocles]

that I thought one of the bigger problems this administration has is being vocal about anything.

Ain't that a Truth... The whole silence gets to me. Use the freaking office man! Get out there and in the papers informing people. Each time he has done that his numbers went up. The longer he is silent the further they go down. Arrrrgh!

 

[maineman]

oh..so can I.... abu ghraib was simply a public relations nightmare...we invaded conquered and occupied Iraq and one of the multitude of shifting reasons for it was a humanitarian one because Saddam had tortured his own people...and then we go and let a bunch of compromising photographs get circulated throughout Iraq and the arab world.

 

[Sir Evil]

Ain't that a Truth... The whole silence gets to me. Use the freaking office man! Get out there and in the papers informing people. Each time he has done that his numbers went up. The longer he is silent the further they go down. Arrrrgh!

It's a certainty sir! I know the rest will see it otherwise but to be fair about it he has taken a ton of criticism from the left, these are the times he needs to speak out and let people know the opposite otherwise they will buy into a certain amount of it. Now I am not suggesting it does'nt go both ways as I have hear it slung the other way as well!

 

[Damocles]

I really don't care how good Rumsfeld is, he isn't irreplaceable and it would be better for us if he had been asked to leave...

Now, of course, the time window has shut and it would be all awkward and stupid... *sigh* This guy has more moments of WTF?? than any other President since Carter. Usually I can determine the motivation behind decisions, those two guys are the ones that have had the most baffling moments ever....

Everybody has some. Like going to Arabia and talking down America... or some other "WTF were you thinking?" moment. But those two had them more than any others in Politics for me.

 

[Sir Evil]

oh..so can I.... abu ghraib was simply a public relations nightmare...we invaded conquered and occupied Iraq and one of the multitude of shifting reasons for it was a humanitarian one because Saddam had tortured his own people...and then we go and let a bunch of compromising photographs get circulated throughout Iraq and the arab world.

Yes, a PR disaster and that's all it was! Say for instance this is something that never came to light during this conflict, do you think it has the same impact?
I recall reading an article in my local paper, someone wrote it suggesting that it should be expected that heads will get cut off when we treat prisoners this way!
With that you have people damn near in support of the bad guys while I guys are getting crucified by the mainstream media about the Geneva Convention, in which the enemy has no need to adhere!

 

[Cypress]

I remember the "mission accomplished" speech saying that we had "a long way to go" and that it would "take a long time" and that "we weren't leaving until the job was done"...

Nowadays it seems like so many forget those portions of the speech for the bumpersticker somebody chose to put on that idiotic banner.

I'm never for undeclared war, so don't get me wrong.

That speech on the carrier was a victory speech. Bush declared the "battle of Iraq" won. Its as simple as that. Everything else is spin.

 

[maineman]

of course not.... but if we ever want to be able to leave Iraq without having to shoot our way out, we need to somehow win the hearts and minds of at least SOME of the people there.

Haditha, by the way, is a different story...that goes beyond mere PR.

 

[Cypress]

you're right... not elected republicans.... merely administration lackeys

The crazy senator from Oklahoma just said last week, that things in iraq were going superb.

 

[Damocles]

That speech on the carrier was a victory speech. Bush declared the "battle of Iraq" won. Its as simple as that. Everything else is spin.

He talked of the continuing problem as they rebuilt Iraq. Anything else is spin. Actually read the transcript. You'll see those very words that I typed above included.

 

[Cypress]

I really don't care how good Rumsfeld is, he isn't irreplaceable and it would be better for us if he had been asked to leave...

Now, of course, the time window has shut and it would be all awkward and stupid... *sigh* This guy has more moments of WTF?? than any other President since Carter. Usually I can determine the motivation behind decisions, those two guys are the ones that have had the most baffling moments ever....

Everybody has some. Like going to Arabia and talking down America... or some other "WTF were you thinking?" moment. But those two had them more than any others in Politics for me.

Its never too late to fire an incompetent secretary of defense. The world would stand up and cheer if Bush did it tommorow - and replaced him with a mainstream competent republican, like James Baker or Colin Powell.

Problem is, its all politics. Bush is willing to keep fucking up, becasue firing rumsfeld might make it look like bush made a mistake.

And rummy might start blabbing to the press, when he is free from the bonds of employment under bush.

 

[Cypress]

He talked of the continuing problem as they rebuilt Iraq. Anything else is spin. Actually read the transcript. You'll see those very words that I typed above included.

yeah, I just read it. He talked about the difficulties in reconstructing iraq, and that some areas were still dangerous because of some saddam dead-enders.

He said nothing about a looming, and deep-rooted insurgency, widespread sectarian violence, or civil war.

 

[Damocles]

Its never too late to fire an incompetent secretary of defense. The world would stand up and cheer if Bush did it tommorow - and replaced him with a mainstream competent republican, like James Baker or Colin Powell.

Problem is, its all politics. Bush is willing to keep fucking up, becasue firing rumsfeld might make it look like bush made a mistake.

And rummy might start blabbing to the press, when he is free from the bonds of employment under bush.

Yeah, but you'll get no positive from firing him over Abu Grabass... I mean really. He should have been fired right then.

And we should expect better from our troops in every way than we expect from the terrorist. I'da been all OVER this if I were the President. Heads would have ROLLED!

 

[Damocles]

yeah, I just read it. He talked about the difficulties in reconstructing iraq, and that some areas were still dangerous because of some saddam dead-enders.

He said nothing about a looming, and deep-rooted insurgency, widespread sectarian violence, or civil war.

Nobody would have realistically. Nobody ever says, "We are doomed!" when speaking of the future of their plans... Even when it would be appropriate.

 

[Cypress]

yeah, I just read it. He talked about the difficulties in reconstructing iraq, and that some areas were still dangerous because of some saddam dead-enders.

He said nothing about a looming, and deep-rooted insurgency, widespread sectarian violence, or civil war.

And plenty of people - even in Bush's own State Department - predicted an insurgecy and sectarian strife.

Bush ignored them, and didn't bother to warn the american people that we were facing years, possibly decades, of guerilla war.

 

[Sir Evil]

He talked of the continuing problem as they rebuilt Iraq. Anything else is spin. Actually read the transcript. You'll see those very words that I typed above included.

What one reads and what one interperets from that is whole different animal!

 

[Cypress]

Yeah, but you'll get no positive from firing him over Abu Grabass... I mean really. He should have been fired right then.

And we should expect better from our troops in every way than we expect from the terrorist. I'da been all OVER this if I were the President. Heads would have ROLLED!

Agree. Rummy should have been gone after abu ghraib. I can't imagine why bush keeps him, other than for political reasons.

Clinton fired his secretary of defense almost immediately, after 18 Rangers were killed in a bungled somali counterinsurgency operation.

Its not hard to fire a cabinet secretary.

 

[maineman]

Nobody would have realistically. Nobody ever says, "We are doomed!" when speaking of the future of their plans... Even when it would be appropriate.

I think that I most definitely warned of sunni/shiite sectarian violence. I was not alone....

 

[Sir Evil]

Bush ignored them, and didn't bother to warn the american people that we were facing years, possibly decades, of guerilla war.

What a maroon, a downright shitbrick! I can't count how many times I have heard him say that it will be a long, long war!
What happens is that shitbricks like yourself figure it's over when it has been enough in your own eyes, the world according to yourselves.

mudflap..........

 

[Damocles]

What one reads and what one interperets from that is whole different animal!

Clearly. It's a largely partisan thing. I really have no dog hunting in this one. I joined the R party because of the whole Fiscal Conservative issue, then all the fiscal conservatives in government disappeared along with the few fighting for small government and personal responsibility.