Health Care Law Declared Void by Florida Judge

Staying with the theme of the Thread, While the 1993 Bill did have a mandate, the Republican bill went nowhere and the co-sponsors were bi-partisan, but it doesn't address whether the mandate would have been constitutional. I suspect it would have been less constitutional in 1993 than it is in 2011.

If I could I would post a link ot a 1993 article that was enlightening on the Politics of his bill.
 
bravo said:
Well, its like this sonny.....
its not 1993.....
Clinton is not the president.....
the HC bill we are discussing is Obamas
the HC bill debated 18 years ago is not the present bill...
and Everything in the present comes from Democrats....
There was no Republican input....

What was talked about 18 years ago is not relevant and if it was anything like whats in Obamas bill can be argued about....


While its true that some conservatives and Republicans championed an individual mandate as part of a broader package of reforms (such as ending preferential tax treatment of employer-provided insurance),... others on the Right have always been opposed. So, for instance, when some Congressional Republicans introduced health reform legislation based upon the Heritage Foundation’s proposal(early 1990's), the Cato Institute published a paper by Tom Miller (now a health care analyst at the American Enterprise Institute) attacking the idea.

It was opposed then and now.
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Well here's news for you asshole...NO liberals or progressives championed an individual mandate, it was the ONLY option left if the health care bill was to proceed without a public option. Because conservative Democrats in the Senate stood with Republicans on the public option, the Republican idea of the individual mandate was included.

The really good news: if the right wing activist courts strike down the individual mandate, it will open the door for the public option...WIDE open.
 
Bfgrn said:
The really good news: if the right wing activist courts strike down the individual mandate, it will open the door for the public option...WIDE open.
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It would certainly be nice if they actually tried the other way first before that monstrosity
 
Bfgrn said:
Well here's news for you asshole...NO liberals or progressives championed an individual mandate, it was the ONLY option left if the health care bill was to proceed without a public option. Because conservative Democrats in the Senate stood with Republicans on the public option, the Republican idea of the individual mandate was included.

The simple fact is "no liberal or progressive would "champion' ANYTHING proposed by a Republican.....then or now.

The really good news: if the right wing activist courts strike down the individual mandate, it will open the door for the public option...WIDE open.
Click to expand...

I already posted this in #15 and #19.....
and here it is again....

its true that some conservatives and Republicans championed an individual mandate as part of a broader package of reforms (such as ending preferential tax treatment of employer-provided insurance),... others on the Right have always been opposed. So, for instance, when some Congressional Republicans introduced health reform legislation based upon the Heritage Foundation’s proposal(early 1990's), the Cato Institute published a paper by Tom Miller (now a health care analyst at the American Enterprise Institute) attacking the idea.


Are you having trouble understanding this....

It was proposed by Republicans and opposed by Republicans....it went no where then and its in the Obama bill now, solely because of Democrats....
 
Bfgrn said:
This could be a great thing for progressives. NO liberal Democrats wanted the individual mandate, which is a Republican idea the Heritage Foundation created. The House passed a bill with a public option, the Senate had 2 bills, one with and one without. But, the public option was nixed by conservative Democrats and the Senator from Aetna, Low LIEberman...

The individual mandate is the only way private insurance cartels can accept the measures ALL Americans agree on, no preexisting conditions, no canceled policies, no denied coverage and 80 cents of every dollar having to go to medical treatments.

It will be interesting to see how Republicans twist in the wind when their true priorities are endangered...huge profits for insurance cartels and fucking the people..
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where are the profit controls?
The government shouldn't get to force the purchase of a product first of all, and secondly, they must provide an oversight mechanism or it's totally ripe for fraud by the Bernie Madoffs of the world just like the federal reserve bank for mega-rich sociopaths like Soros,Bernanke, el al
 
tinfoil said:
where are the profit controls?
The government shouldn't get to force the purchase of a product first of all, and secondly, they must provide an oversight mechanism or it's totally ripe for fraud by the Bernie Madoffs of the world just like the federal reserve bank for mega-rich sociopaths like Soros,Bernanke, el al
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The profit controls still are and continue to be the State Insurance Boards. The same boards that have to OK every premium hike proposed by an insurance company based on the Company's financials.
 
bravo said:
I already posted this in #15 and #19.....
and here it is again....

its true that some conservatives and Republicans championed an individual mandate as part of a broader package of reforms (such as ending preferential tax treatment of employer-provided insurance),... others on the Right have always been opposed. So, for instance, when some Congressional Republicans introduced health reform legislation based upon the Heritage Foundation’s proposal(early 1990's), the Cato Institute published a paper by Tom Miller (now a health care analyst at the American Enterprise Institute) attacking the idea.


Are you having trouble understanding this....

It was proposed by Republicans and opposed by Republicans....it went no where then and its in the Obama bill now, solely because of Democrats....
Click to expand...

In 1993 the Republican created individual mandate went as far as a BILL.

The REASON only Democrats passed a carbon copy of the 1993 Republican BILL, is because Republicans made a collective decision to KILL heath care reform...NOT for the benefit of the people of this nation, but solely for the benefit of their party.
 
it wouldn't matter whether it was a republican bill or democrat bill. Congress has no power to compel a citizen to participate in any portion of commerce, interstate or intrastate.
 
FuzzyBunny said:
The profit controls still are and continue to be the State Insurance Boards. The same boards that have to OK every premium hike proposed by an insurance company based on the Company's financials.
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AND...the Affordable Health Care Act of 2010 mandates that insurance cartels must spend 80 cents of every dollar they collect towards patient care.
 
Bfgrn said:
In 1993 the Republican created individual mandate went as far as a BILL.

The REASON only Democrats passed a carbon copy of the 1993 Republican BILL, is because Republicans made a collective decision to KILL heath care reform...NOT for the benefit of the people of this nation, but solely for the benefit of their party.
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There ya go sonny.... Democrats passed a carbon copy of the 1993 Republican BILL....you're getting closer...

The Ind. Mandate was a small part of a larger reform package in 1993, rejected by Democrats, you do know that........Democrats, in 2010 passed the one part, Ind. Mandate...WHY?

Because their own party could not and would not agree to a public option and could not pass a bill with the PO even though they OWNED THE ENTIRE GOVERNMENT,,,,HOUSE, SENATE, and PRESIDENCY....

On Nov. 7, the House passed its health reform by the narrow margin of 220-215. The vote came only after Speaker Nancy Pelosi agreed to weaken the public option provisions.

The Senate Bill

In December, as the Senate began consideration of the bill, Mr. Reid convened a group of five liberal and five conservative Democratic senators to seek common ground on the public option.
On Dec. 24, the Senate passed Mr. Reid's bill -- without a public option -- on a straight party line vote.
In January 2010, Mr. Reid and Ms. Pelosi began negotiations on blending their bills. It quickly became apparent that the public option was not likely to survive in a final bill because it would lose the support of the conservative Democrats who had demanded Mr. Reid drop it.

Democrats all the way....no input by Republicans ....none at all....especially no Ind. Mandate by Republicans...and that is the whole point.
A failed bill 18 years ago is totally irrelevant.....
I won't explain it to you again, you're starting to bore me.
 
FuzzyBunny said:
Is that more or less then they are currently spending?
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It has been shrinking for a number of years. Back in the early '90s, 95 cents out of every dollar on average was used by the insurance companies to pay claims.

If you're really interested in learning how insurance cartels operate, how they have been hijacked by Wall Street hedge fund managers and large institutional investors who severely punish any company that pays out too much for claims and how insurance cartels accomplish THAT is by denying coverage and canceling patients who NEED insurance because of illness. Learn how Wall Street was able to force AETNA to purge 8 million people, men, women, and children off their roles.

Watch this.

Profits before patients

The guy being interviewed was a 15 year executive at CIGNA, one of the largest insurance cartels.

It's ironic that morons like Bravo will never watch this. He is not interested in truth, he is only interested in his right wing ideology and dogma.
 
the problem is that the uninsured typically use emergency rooms for health care

also, there is a hardship exemption for those that cannot afford health insurance

i vote for a single payer system and universal health care coverage
 
Schadenfreude said:
the problem is that the uninsured typically use emergency rooms for health care

also, there is a hardship exemption for those that cannot afford health insurance

i vote for a single payer system and universal health care coverage
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cite some stats. You can't just keep throwing that bullshit meme out there.
 
Bfgrn said:
It has been shrinking for a number of years. Back in the early '90s, 95 cents out of every dollar on average was used by the insurance companies to pay claims.

If you're really interested in learning how insurance cartels operate, how they have been hijacked by Wall Street hedge fund managers and large institutional investors who severely punish any company that pays out too much for claims and how insurance cartels accomplish THAT is by denying coverage and canceling patients who NEED insurance because of illness. Learn how Wall Street was able to force AETNA to purge 8 million people, men, women, and children off their roles.

Watch this.

The guy being interviewed was a 15 year executive at CIGNA, one of the largest insurance cartels.

It's ironic that morons like Bravo will never watch this. He is not interested in truth, he is only interested in his right wing ideology and dogma.
Click to expand...

So then the answer to the Question then becomes, They get to make more money under Obamacare then they were making, By law. You didn't need to make me read all that to answer the question.
 
FuzzyBunny said:
So then the answer to the Question then becomes, They get to make more money under Obamacare then they were making, By law. You didn't need to make me read all that to answer the question.
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How did you come up with that conclusion, emotion?

Is it fair to assume you will not watch the interview with a 15 year insurance executive?
 
FuzzyBunny said:
Don't forget all the Uber Costs also.
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That's mostly to the consumer who would be forced to buy it. Bless the gods if you own insurance stock, they pretty much immediately raised prices to cover all the new costs to them and only the consumer seems to be jacked by this new law.

It was designed to create a failure in the "market" that would force government takeover. Obama, and about a billion other democrat leaders (yes, exaggeration Nigelbot) constantly talked about how you had to do it incrementally. Ignoring what they say and do to pretend that this isn't just one step in a larger goal would be a mistake of epic proportions.

And welcome to the board.
 
Bfgrn said:
How did you come up with that conclusion, emotion?

Is it fair to assume you will not watch the interview with a 15 year insurance executive?
Click to expand...

I prefer to call it reading.
As in:
The accounting firm found that the collective medical-loss ratios of the seven largest for-profit insurers fell from an average of 85.3 percent in 1998 to 81.6 percent in 2008.
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and
Last year, it was down to just slightly above 80 percent
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Granted I would rather go with PricewaterhouseCoopers numbers as being more reflective
 
Damocles said:
And welcome to the board.
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Thanks, Just a Thomhartmann refugee looking for a new home.

That's mostly to the consumer who would be forced to buy it. Bless the gods if you own insurance stock, they pretty much immediately raised prices to cover all the new costs to them and only the consumer seems to be jacked by this new law.

It was designed to create a failure in the "market" that would force government takeover. Obama, and about a billion other democrat leaders (yes, exaggeration Nigelbot) constantly talked about how you had to do it incrementally. Ignoring what they say and do to pretend that this isn't just one step in a larger goal would be a mistake of epic proportions.
Click to expand...
I have operated under the theory for a couple years now that the entire failure the Healthcare industry can be summed up in Governmental manipulation of free market. But now that the System is screwed up, they want us to turn it ALL over to them to magically fix. The same people that screwqed it up in the first place.
 
FuzzyBunny said:
I prefer to call it reading.
As in:

and


Granted I would rather go with PricewaterhouseCoopers numbers as being more reflective
Click to expand...

The health-care overhaul bill stipulates targets of 80% for small-business plans and 85% for large-company plans, so plug that into your calculations.

Why didn't you answer my question about the interview?


A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything but the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde
 
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