High speed trains are racing across the world. But not in America

signalmankenneth

Verified User
I don't think I will live to see high speed rail in this country?!! All of does tax cuts for the rich over the years, might have paid for a high speed rail system too?!! My favorite high speed train is France’s TGV, at over 300mph, you drink a glass of champagne on a table and there is no spillage, it's that smooth?!!

CNN —
High speed trains have proved their worth across the world over the past 50 years.

It’s not just in reducing journey times, but more importantly, it’s in driving economic growth, creating jobs and bringing communities closer together. China, Japan and Europe lead the way.

So why doesn’t the United States have a high-speed rail network like those?

For the richest and most economically successful nation on the planet, with an increasingly urbanized population of more than 300 million, it’s a position that is becoming more difficult to justify.

Although Japan started the trend with its Shinkansen “Bullet Trains” in 1964, it was the advent of France’s TGV in the early 1980s that really kick-started a global high-speed train revolution that continues to gather pace.

But it’s a revolution that has so far bypassed the United States. Americans are still almost entirely reliant on congested highways or the headache-inducing stress of an airport and airline network prone to meltdowns.

China has built around 26,000 miles (42,000 kilometers) of dedicated high-speed railways since 2008 and plans to top 43,000 miles (70,000 kilometers) by 2035.

Meanwhile, the United States has just 375 route-miles of track cleared for operation at more than 100 mph.

“Many Americans have no concept of high-speed rail and fail to see its value. They are hopelessly stuck with a highway and airline mindset,” says William C. Vantuono, editor-in-chief of Railway Age, North America’s oldest railroad industry publication.

Cars and airliners have dominated long-distance travel in the United States since the 1950s, rapidly usurping a network of luxurious passenger trains with evocative names such as “The Empire Builder,” “Super Chief” and “Silver Comet.”

Deserted by Hollywood movie stars and business travelers, famous railroads such as the New York Central were largely bankrupt by the early 1970s, handing over their loss-making trains to Amtrak, the national passenger train operator founded in 1971.

In the decades since that traumatic retrenchment, US freight railroads have largely flourished. Passenger rail seems to have been a very low priority for US lawmakers.

Powerful airline, oil and auto industry lobbies in Washington have spent millions maintaining that superiority, but their position is weakening in the face of environmental concerns and worsening congestion.

US President Joe Biden’s $1.2 trillion infrastructure bill includes an unprecedented $170 billion for improving railroads.
Some of this will be invested in repairing Amtrak’s crumbling Northeast Corridor (NEC) linking Boston, New York and Washington.

There are also big plans to bring passenger trains back to many more cities across the nation – providing fast, sustainable travel to cities and regions that have not seen a passenger train for decades.

Add to this the success of the privately funded Brightline operation in Florida, which has been given the green light to build a $10 billion high-speed rail link between Los Angeles and Las Vegas by 2027, plus schemes in California, Texas and the proposed Cascadia route linking Portland, Oregon, with Seattle and Vancouver, and the United States at last appears to be on the cusp of a passenger rail revolution.

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/high-speed-rail-us/index.html


 
America is about to become a deeply impoverished nation, and the new global overlords the Chinese will demand that we suffer for at least decades....good rail transit is nowhere on the horizon.
 
Well, could it be that the entirety of France fits inside the state of Texas? A 300 mph train running the 2800 miles from LA to NYC would take a minimum of roughly 10 hours to make the trip non-stop. Of course, crossing the Pacific coastal range, then the Rocky Mountains, then the Appalachians, on top of making at least some stops along the way, and definitely not being able to make 300 mph continuously, would make the trip more like 3 or 4 days in length. The cost would be equal to or much higher-- likely much higher--than air travel.

Given those figures, NOBODY would take the train when they can fly. Four or five hours in the air and you're there is preferable to an interminable trip on a choo choo train. That's why passenger train service died out in the US decades ago. China is losing their ass in money on their high-speed rail system. It is unsustainable.

Why take a train from LA to Vegas when a flight takes one hour with similar wait times at both ends compared to using high-speed rail. Spending a whole day, effectively, on a train to get to Vegas makes ZERO sense for say, someone going there for a three-day weekend. Flying lets you spend three days in Vegas versus say maybe--MAYBE--two if you take the train.

California's high speed rail program has already exceeded $100 billion and it hasn't moved a single passenger. That's somewhere between 3 and 4 times the original estimate, and my bet is that's only a fraction of the real cost. In fact, the $100 billion estimate moved to $105 billion this year.

Japan is roughly the same size as California. Again, high speed rail for the entire US is absurd. China has spent nearly a trillion dollars on their system, and it isn't making a cent of profit.

High speed rail makes ZERO sense for America.
 
Well, could it be that the entirety of France fits inside the state of Texas? A 300 mph train running the 2800 miles from LA to NYC would take a minimum of roughly 10 hours to make the trip non-stop. Of course, crossing the Pacific coastal range, then the Rocky Mountains, then the Appalachians, on top of making at least some stops along the way, and definitely not being able to make 300 mph continuously, would make the trip more like 3 or 4 days in length. The cost would be equal to or much higher-- likely much higher--than air travel.

Given those figures, NOBODY would take the train when they can fly. Four or five hours in the air and you're there is preferable to an interminable trip on a choo choo train. That's why passenger train service died out in the US decades ago. China is losing their ass in money on their high-speed rail system. It is unsustainable.

Why take a train from LA to Vegas when a flight takes one hour with similar wait times at both ends compared to using high-speed rail. Spending a whole day, effectively, on a train to get to Vegas makes ZERO sense for say, someone going there for a three-day weekend. Flying lets you spend three days in Vegas versus say maybe--MAYBE--two if you take the train.

California's high speed rail program has already exceeded $100 billion and it hasn't moved a single passenger. That's somewhere between 3 and 4 times the original estimate, and my bet is that's only a fraction of the real cost. In fact, the $100 billion estimate moved to $105 billion this year.

Japan is roughly the same size as California. Again, high speed rail for the entire US is absurd. China has spent nearly a trillion dollars on their system, and it isn't making a cent of profit.

High speed rail makes ZERO sense for America.

Your argument is obvious garbage given how much sense HSR makes in China. The purpose of rail is not to make money, it is to move people in a sensible way, it is to allow the society to work.
 
Assuming that people are going to be able to fly if they want to is as dumb as assuming that people will be allowed to own a car if they want to and go wherever they please...it is being blind to where our overlords are dragging us without our consent.
 
Your argument is obvious garbage given how much sense HSR makes in China. The purpose of rail is not to make money, it is to move people in a sensible way, it is to allow the society to work.

China would have been better off building a network of airports and airlines. Right now, China's HSR system is losing about $5 billion a year and has about $900 billion in debt accrued. They've screwed several of their neighbors into buying into the system like Laos that is now about $1.5 billion in debt for a single line to their capitol. That's something like 20% of the nation's GDP.

China's government is using some shady accounting (anyone surprised?) to make those figures look better, but the bottom line is HSR is unaffordable. In the US it is even less unaffordable where we have much higher construction costs per mile.

The purpose of a sane and sensible business is to make money. Government building and running transportation systems that can't even come close to being profitable is stupid.
 
China would have been better off building a network of airports and airlines. Right now, China's HSR system is losing about $5 billion a year and has about $900 billion in debt accrued. They've screwed several of their neighbors into buying into the system like Laos that is now about $1.5 billion in debt for a single line to their capitol. That's something like 20% of the nation's GDP.

China's government is using some shady accounting (anyone surprised?) to make those figures look better, but the bottom line is HSR is unaffordable. In the US it is even less unaffordable where we have much higher construction costs per mile.

The purpose of a sane and sensible business is to make money. Government building and running transportation systems that can't even come close to being profitable is stupid.

The purpose of the society is not to serve business, the purpose of business is to serve the society. Your "It must make money" demand is insane.
 
Those with low social credit scores in China can neither fly nor use HSR....it will not be any different here. As the rail system continues to improve the right to fly will recede.
 
The purpose of the society is not to serve business, the purpose of business is to serve the society. Your "It must make money" demand is insane.

A society that does stuff that ends up with them broke economically serves no one. Government cannot live indefinitely on a credit card any more than you or I can.
 
Those with low social credit scores in China can neither fly nor use HSR....it will not be any different here. As the rail system continues to improve the right to fly will recede.

So, the government will strangle profitable airlines that are efficient and replace them with unprofitable high speed rail that's inefficient and then--I'd bet--wonder why the economy is tanking...
 
So, the government will strangle profitable airlines that are efficient and replace them with unprofitable high speed rail that's inefficient and then--I'd bet--wonder why the economy is tanking...

Our nation is failing because the elites used capitalism to accumulate money and they weaponized that money against the people and against the Constitution.
 
Eventually America is going to have to admit they need mass transit, and trains are the best resource to meet those needs. We can't continue to keep adding lanes to highways thinking that is going to resolve the problem. Luckily, I do live in a part of the country that does have mass transit

The major problem with trains today is that the tracks that do exist are outdated for today's technology. Where trains are everywhere, what funding is appropriated goes toward repairing and maintaining existing systems

Problem with air travel is that adding in the time you have to be at the airport prior to departure, planes are generally uncomfortable, and, given that most airports are located outside of urban areas, the time, expense, and inconvenience of getting into the city has to added to the total cost
 
A society that does stuff that ends up with them broke economically serves no one. Government cannot live indefinitely on a credit card any more than you or I can.

As is demonstrated as the Chinese expedite the end of Americas global power and America sinks into deep poverty for at least many decades, probably a lot longer, the Chinese will insist.
 
High Speed Trains make a lot of sense in America.

And not just for people- but also for moving Freight!

But, at 300 miles per hour, they can be very dangerous if something should go wrong.

But if they were built in tunnels the infrastructure would be quite the investment.

Open canals would be safe and less expensive, as bridges could be easily built above them, and there would be no interruption of highway traffic.

As for passenger trains, I don't think they should stop at every city in between, as they should be mainly EXPRESS commuter trains from point A to B with only a few stops in between. Just the major city stops.
 
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Our nation is failing because the elites used capitalism to accumulate money and they weaponized that money against the people and against the Constitution.

That is such sophomoric bullshit full extraneous generalizations, useless clichés, and conglomeration of evident pulpiness that makes it even beyond comical, and throwing in the Constitution at the end is priceless
 
Our nation is failing because the elites used capitalism to accumulate money and they weaponized that money against the people and against the Constitution.

Wrong. Our nation is failing because government is increasingly taking control of many aspects of the economy and for all intents, socializing them. Government has never been particularly good at running a business, and they're running many in the US into the ground today.
 
High Speed Trains make a lot of sense in America.

And not just for people- but also for moving Freight!

But, at 300 miles per hour, they can be very dangerous if something should go wrong.

But if they were built in tunnels the infrastructure would be quite the investment.

Open trenches would be safe and less expensive, as bridges could be easily built above them, and there would be no interruption of highway traffic.

As for passenger trains, I don't think they should stop at every city in between, as they should be mainly commuter trains from point A to B with only a few stops in between. Just the major city stops.

Our current freight rail system is highly efficient and profitable. It doesn't need more speed. Passenger train service in the US is a very limited proposition mostly to the highest population density areas on the two coasts. Outside of that, it's a massive loser.
 
Wrong. Our nation is failing because government is increasingly taking control of many aspects of the economy and for all intents, socializing them. Government has never been particularly good at running a business, and they're running many in the US into the ground today.

That's an overgeneralization

Yes, the majority of business should be owned and operated by private concerns, which they are, however, there does exist many things in our society that private interests, due to the profit motive, can not deliver as well as the Government can and does.
 
Modern high speed rail? Here?

We're on the way to bypassing third world status and introducing the planet to the fourth world,

Americans reject public transportation.

It's as simple as that.

We're not the shiniest pennies in this planet's roll.
 
Our current freight rail system is highly efficient and profitable. It doesn't need more speed. Passenger train service in the US is a very limited proposition mostly to the highest population density areas on the two coasts. Outside of that, it's a massive loser.

It's a loser because nobody goes to many of those places, but as urbanization spreads and cities get bigger, mass transit is the way of the future
 
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