Hip Hop Turns 50

Nomad said:
Yeah, it's always someone else's fault.

No better than Trump and his Trumper cultists.

Those morons blame all Trump's shit, the violence enabled by the guns they love and the economic problems brought about by their shitty, pro-1% policies on them dang ol' lib'ruls and Demmycrats.

Blacks meanwhile, with the aid of woke white nitwits, are blaming their shitty, lowlife ghetto culture on whites who supposedly twisted their arms and forced them into it.

In the early 90's NWA, 2Live Crew and many other male and female rappers, who I'm happy and proud to admit I can't readily recall the names of, are the ones who started the "nasty as we wanna be" and gangsta thug attitude in rap because they knew it appealed to young, immature, stupid little teenage shits of all races.

But nobody made them do it.

They did it willingly for money.

And I'll say it again.... their shit is primarily responsible for the cultural decline in Western societies, mainly the US.

No matter what they claim their reasons for it were.

Black ghetto culture is invading, infecting and seeping its way into every aspect of American life and dragging us all down the toilet with them.

But mostly, rap is just shitty, low-talent garbage passed off as music by scammers and con artists to appeal to people with shitty taste.

So fuck off. :fu:
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I liked the old Motown sound stuff. Smokey Robinson, Marvin Gay,...Temptations, groups like that. Hip hop/ Rap....I have no use for.
 
Stone said:
I liked the old Motown sound stuff. Smokey Robinson, Marvin Gay,...Temptations, groups like that. Hip hop/ Rap....I have no use for.
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Yes, those people were musicians.

Earth, Wind and Fire were phenomenal.

Rap is nothing more than an excuse for gangsta trash to get into something other than selling drugs.

Pays better and less dangerous, though they do tend to get murdered by each other more than any other genre.
 
Nomad said:
Yes, those people were musicians.

Earth, Wind and Fire were phenomenal.

Rap is nothing more than an excuse for gangsta trash to get into something other than selling drugs.

Pays better and less dangerous, though they do tend to get murdered by each other more than any other genre.
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Agreed.
 
I do not like the lyrics of most Hip hop or rap. At all. Like Nomad I think that lyrics like that are bad for society in general but especially for the young. Glorification of bad actions is never a good thing and teaches a wrong moral lesson. Truth be told there is also a lot of songs/groups that fall within the rock, pop, or country genre's I dont want anything to do with either for the exact same reasons. Music is a VERY powerful thing and has a big impact on how people feel and think. It can be used almost like medicine or as a weapon.

Watch any movie,...especially a dramatic scene. Add the melodramatic background music to the scene and it increases the impact 10 fold.

As a Christian I REALLY do not like churches where the pastor has an organist lightly play melodramatic notes in the background as he is delivering his sermon. GOD is not a TV commercial! There is a time for music and a time to sing in church,....During a sermon is NOT one of those times IMO. I run from churches that do that.
 
Nomad said:
Odd thing to celebrate that which is probably the number one phenomenon that is dragging the class and culture of this country and the rest of the civilized world down the toilet.

I liken it to the right's fealty to Trump.

People nowadays seem to have this strange predilection for latching onto garbage and following down the shitter.
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I'm of two conflicting thoughts here.

1) I do share some of your thoughts that elements of hip hop glamourize 'ghetto' culture and the artists try to portray that they are actually living the lifestyle that they promote and celebrate in their music - which does have a real negative influence, especially on the youth

2) violence and materialism that hip hop promotes and celebrates have been ingrained in American culture for a long time, it did not start with hip hop. To say if hip hop went away so would the things/issues it promotes is not accurate. Look at Hollywood for instance. One can argue people should know it's just entertainment yet one can say the same about hip hop.


I wasn't around when rock n' roll was founded but reading the history behind it you had people arguing how bad it was for America. This isn't justification for the excesses of hip hop but some of the rhetoric back in the day about rock n' roll is not all that different than what is being said about hip hop.
 
cawacko said:
I'm of two conflicting thoughts here.

1) I do share some of your thoughts that elements of hip hop glamourize 'ghetto' culture and the artists try to portray that they are actually living the lifestyle that they promote and celebrate in their music - which does have a real negative influence, especially on the youth

2) violence and materialism that hip hop promotes and celebrates have been ingrained in American culture for a long time, it did not start with hip hop. To say if hip hop went away so would the things/issues it promotes is not accurate. Look at Hollywood for instance. One can argue people should know it's just entertainment yet one can say the same about hip hop.


I wasn't around when rock n' roll was founded but reading the history behind it you had people arguing how bad it was for America. This isn't justification for the excesses of hip hop but some of the rhetoric back in the day about rock n' roll is not all that different than what is being said about hip hop.
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Re: point #2, yes that is true, but I was not suggesting that. I would say that rap has given violence and materialism a brand new or at least extended outlet for expression that it previously didn't have.

Certainly movies and TV have glorified violence and to a lesser degree greed, for as long as they've existed. But I don't think TV shows and movies have the same grip on the minds of youth that "their" music has. Kids really identify with the music they listen to. Just like metalheads (metal is about as bad as rap), goths, southern rockers, country/rednecks, etc, rap adherents tend to base their identities around the music they claim.

In that sense, rap music indoctrinates these young black kids and at least HELPS to push them towards poor life choices with bad outcomes. And yes, I know white kids listen to rap too. But it's different with them. I think white kids just listen to it because other kids do. They don't try to live it. I think black kids really internalize it because they identify with the rappers who produce it. Many of them with dreams and aspirations of making it big in the rap world, too.

And though taking up music is usually a good thing for kids when it comes to most musical genres, rap is more of pitfall than a springboard. It doesn't encourage or even require mastering a musical instrument. Just pick up a mic and blabber a lot of simplistic BS rhymes about da hood, or what they did that day or some gangsta crap. Whatever.

No hard work or talent or creativity required.

As for point #3, yes older people were saying that about rock-'n'-roll, and if you look back on the evolution of society since the mid fifties when rock-'n'-roll began, they weren't entirely wrong depending on one's point of view. I love a lot of rock-'n'-roll, but there is no denying that it promoted behavior that has led to serious social problems.

I suppose with rock-'n'-roll it was a double edged sword. Both good and bad effects have been felt. But I don't see any good edge to the sword that is rap/hip hop. For the most part, the values it promotes are negative and harmful to the youth who internalize it, then grow up into problem adults.
 
Nomad said:
Re: point #2, yes that is true, but I was not suggesting that. I would say that rap has given violence and materialism a brand new or at least extended outlet for expression that it previously didn't have.

Certainly movies and TV have glorified violence and to a lesser degree greed, for as long as they've existed. But I don't think TV shows and movies have the same grip on the minds of youth that "their" music has. Kids really identify with the music they listen to. Just like metalheads (metal is about as bad as rap), goths, southern rockers, country/rednecks, etc, rap adherents tend to base their identities around the music they claim.

In that sense, rap music indoctrinates these young black kids and at least HELPS to push them towards poor life choices with bad outcomes. And yes, I know white kids listen to rap too. But it's different with them. I think white kids just listen to it because other kids do. They don't try to live it. I think black kids really internalize it because they identify with the rappers who produce it. Many of them with dreams and aspirations of making it big in the rap world, too.

And though taking up music is usually a good thing for kids when it comes to most musical genres, rap is more of pitfall than a springboard. It doesn't encourage or even require mastering a musical instrument. Just pick up a mic and blabber a lot of simplistic BS rhymes about da hood, or what they did that day or some gangsta crap. Whatever.

No hard work or talent or creativity required.

As for point #3, yes older people were saying that about rock-'n'-roll, and if you look back on the evolution of society since the mid fifties when rock-'n'-roll began, they weren't entirely wrong depending on one's point of view. I love a lot of rock-'n'-roll, but there is no denying that it promoted behavior that has led to serious social problems.

I suppose with rock-'n'-roll it was a double edged sword. Both good and bad effects have been felt. But I don't see any good edge to the sword that is rap/hip hop. For the most part, the values it promotes are negative and harmful to the youth who internalize it, then grow up into problem adults.
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I go back and forth on this.

The rap music I listened to growing up in the '80's was different than today in a certain sense. 'Gangsta' rap hadn't really taken off yet. As the argument goes, it was music by poor kids speaking out against the horrible conditions they face living in urban America. It was giving a voice to the voiceless and speaking out against the injustices in America.

I do buy into the position that rappers promoting living this drug and gangsta lifestyle does have a negative effect on kids. I can also hear the argument in response that white people specifically speaking out against hip hop are a form of white supremacy trying to hold back an industry heavily populated by black people expressing their culture. And that hip hop is not only the dominate music in America it is a global phenomenon and a multi-billion dollar industry.

The reality is there were challenges/problems in the black community prior to invention of hip hop. So one can argue that causation does not point at rap music. And in our diversifying country today kids of all races listen to hip hop. It's ubiquitous and not likely to change anytime soon.
 
I hated hip hop music from the moment that I first heard it,
but the more things people enjoy, the better,
so for those who like it, knock yourself out.

I don't think TV, movies, video games, music, or even porn have that much effect on intelligent children.

Intelligent children know from a very early age what's real and what's imagination,

and that they can be harmlessly entertained by make believe things
that they would never consider or tolerate if said things were real.

I think the big problem is with conservative parents.

If kids don't feel that they can discuss anything at all with their parents without precipitating their parents disapproval,
then they don't get a proper perspective on things that they're a bit young to understand on their own.

They WILL be exposed to some of those things, however, whether we like it or not.

Letting kids be kids and delaying their sophistication
creates the danger of the kids becoming either victims or perpetrators.
 
cawacko said:
I go back and forth on this.

The rap music I listened to growing up in the '80's was different than today in a certain sense. 'Gangsta' rap hadn't really taken off yet. As the argument goes, it was music by poor kids speaking out against the horrible conditions they face living in urban America. It was giving a voice to the voiceless and speaking out against the injustices in America.

I do buy into the position that rappers promoting living this drug and gangsta lifestyle does have a negative effect on kids. I can also hear the argument in response that white people specifically speaking out against hip hop are a form of white supremacy trying to hold back an industry heavily populated by black people expressing their culture. And that hip hop is not only the dominate music in America it is a global phenomenon and a multi-billion dollar industry.

The reality is there were challenges/problems in the black community prior to invention of hip hop. So one can argue that causation does not point at rap music. And in our diversifying country today kids of all races listen to hip hop. It's ubiquitous and not likely to change anytime soon.
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Yeah, the 80's was the early "innocent" days of rap when it was almost cartoonish.

Track suits, huge gold chains and medallions, funny looking hats.

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Flavor Flav and his silly-ass clock pendant

image.jpg


The '85 Chicago Bears.... :palm:

Not too long ago, Kenan Thompson did an 80's rap spoof on SNL where he was dressed up like that and did an old school rap that went...

"Rap, rap, rippity rap,

Rap rap rippity doo!!!"

Spot on illustration of how mostly innocuous rap was back then. Black guys acting goofy.

Then around the 90's when 2 Live Crew came out and NWA also from around then, it all turned gangsta, ugly and shitty.

hq720.jpg


From there it didn't so much devolve as it sort of morphed and expanded into ho's, bitches, boasting about expensive champagne, cars and houses. Ostentatious wealth being worn in the public's face because the poor, low-class ghetto trash had to show off what they got.

Makin' it rain up in here!!!

And it pretty much stagnated there.

They eventually responded to criticisms of not being real music because it was all sampled, by enlisting instrumental players. But it didn't do anything to improve the quality of it overall.

Now it's all strange.

Some of it isn't violent or low class, but sadly I think most of it is.

Any genre of music that is meant to be played in "cars" that are really just big speaker systems on wheels blasting obnoxious noise so loud people can hear it a quarter mile away, is nothing that could realistically be called inspiring or uplifting.

Unless "uplifting" refers to how the shit blasts you out of your car seat at the stop light.

Truly obnoxious, anti-social audio garbage.
 
Nomad said:
Yeah, the 80's was the early "innocent" days of rap when it was almost cartoonish.

Track suits, huge gold chains and medallions, funny looking hats.

sddefault.jpg


Flavor Flav and his silly-ass clock pendant

image.jpg


The '85 Chicago Bears.... :palm:

Not too long ago, Kenan Thompson did an 80's rap spoof on SNL where he was dressed up like that and did an old school rap that went...

"Rap, rap, rippity rap,

Rap rap rippity doo!!!"

Spot on illustration of how mostly innocuous rap was back then. Black guys acting goofy.

Then around the 90's when 2 Live Crew came out and NWA also from around then, it all turned gangsta, ugly and shitty.

hq720.jpg


From there it didn't so much devolve as it sort of morphed and expanded into ho's, bitches, boasting about expensive champagne, cars and houses. Ostentatious wealth being worn in the public's face because the poor, low-class ghetto trash had to show off what they got.

Makin' it rain up in here!!!

And it pretty much stagnated there.

They eventually responded to criticisms of not being real music because it was all sampled, by enlisting instrumental players. But it didn't do anything to improve the quality of it overall.

Now it's all strange.

Some of it isn't violent or low class, but sadly I think most of it is.

Any genre of music that is meant to be played in "cars" that are really just big speaker systems on wheels blasting obnoxious noise so loud people can hear it a quarter mile away, is nothing that could realistically be called inspiring or uplifting.

Unless "uplifting" refers to how the shit blasts you out of your car seat at the stop light.

Truly obnoxious, anti-social audio garbage.
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Since this is a political board its interesting the industry's history with Trump. If you recall a number of songs in the 90's and aughts made reference to Trump. Like you said, hip hop loves to show off its materialism and the high life and Trump completely represented that. (that all changed when he became President but I'm talking about before then) I watched wrestling for a few years when I was kid and Ric Flair was a superstar. I remember his interviews talking about how much money he made, having the biggest house on top of the hill, his jewelry and limousines and women etc. Saw an interview with Snoop Dog who said Flair was an honorary (black) hip hop person as a result.

It can be fun escapism to hear the lyrics and dream about living the good life, poppin bottles at the club, etc. etc. But there are downsides as well as we've discussed.
 
cawacko said:
It's 'official' birthday is actually tomorrow. I'm guessing we don't have a lot of hip hop heads on this board but nonetheless, curious if folks here remember the first time they heard rap/hip hop and the reaction to it (i'm thinking in the '70's - even though during that period I don't believe there were really any hip hop songs on the airways).

For me, I'm pretty sure RUN DMC and Whodini were the first two hip hop tapes I purchased in the mid 80's.
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I was a commuter student to the local 4 year college when "Rapper's Delight" was taking the airwaves by storm. Remember, this was in the days of FM/AM radio, where there were JUST A FEW STATIONS that ALL Americans listened to. It was also a time when music lovers were highly tribel. You had your rock listeners, acid rock, folk, country western, blue grass, gospel, soul, jazz, funk, R&B, Top 40 and the DeadHeads & DISCO heads (shudder). If I left out anyone, please forgive.

Anyway, I'm on the line to board the commuter bus to hit the morning classes, and some kid with a boom box (ahh, nostalgia) is blasting Rapper's Delight somewhere in the bus station. By this time, EVERYONE had heard this about a million times, and it was becoming somewhat of a joke. I turned to a buddy of mine and said, "If this crap really catches on, it'll be the death of black music in America as we know it". He replied, "You're crazy! This is just novelty stuff. It's never gonna be a mainstay."

Sadly, he was wrong. What has transpired in the last 50 years is a terrible lowering of standards within black music in America, if not the world. Literally any jackass with access to a quality tape recorder with a microphone and a little practice can be a "rapper". The Beastie Boys proved that. Music promotors loved it because it gave them a lion's share of 12% (at the time) of the populations record buying audience. And it was economical (at the time). No bus loads of equipment, no major lighting or major sound system checks.

The off shoot of this was "hip hop".... a severely watered down version of various black music styles coupled with rappers. Some of these groups actually came close to maintaining the standards set by giants like The Isley Brothers or Stevie Wonder or Gladys Knight. Close, but no cigar (IMHO, of course).

It just breaks my heart, because for decades before my birth and a few years after black Americans created and maintained a trend setting quality style of music that swept the world. Rap and Hip Hop took all of that away.
 
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Taichiliberal said:
I was a commuter student to the local 4 year college when "Rapper's Delight" was taking the airwaves by storm. Remember, this was in the days of FM/AM radio, where there were JUST A FEW STATIONS that ALL Americans listened to. It was also a time when music lovers were highly tribel. You had your rock listeners, acid rock, folk, country western, blue grass, gospel, soul, jazz, funk, R&B, Top 40 and the DeadHeads & DISCO heads (shudder). If I left out anyone, please forgive.

Anyway, I'm on the line to board the commuter bus to hit the morning classes, and some kid with a boom box (ahh, nostalgia) is blasting Rapper's Delight somewhere in the bus station. By this time, EVERYONE had heard this about a million times, and it was becoming somewhat of a joke. I turned to a buddy of mine and said, "If this crap really catches on, it'll be the death of black music in America as we know it". He replied, "You're crazy! This is just novelty stuff. It's never gonna be a mainstay."

Sadly, he was wrong. What has transpired in the last 50 years is a terrible lowering of standards within black music in America, if not the world. Literally any jackass with access to a quality tape recorder with a microphone and a little practice can be a "rapper". The Beastie Boys proved that. Music promotors loved it because it gave them a lion's share of 12% (at the time) of the populations record buying audience. And it was economical (at the time). No bus loads of equipment, no major lighting or major sound system checks.

The off shoot of this was "hip hop".... a severely watered down version of various black music styles coupled with rappers. Some of these groups actually came close to maintaining the standards set by giants like The Isley Brothers or Stevie Wonder or Gladys Knight. Close, but no cigar (IMHO, of course).

It just breaks my heart, because for decades before my birth and a few years after black Americans created and maintained a trend setting quality style of music that swept the world. Rap and Hip Hop took all of that away.
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Thelonius Monk, Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Ornette Colman, Sam Brown, James Brown, Aretha Franklin, Gloria Gaynor, Ella Fitzgerald and a whole host of black musicians who never lived to hear the worst black music ever.

 
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serendipity said:
I watched a documentary on Netflix called Miles Davis: Birth of the Cool recently. Very complex flawed human being, but a truly wonderful musician.
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Here is the thing about we/me the progressive....Old School....I care about the progress of civilization more than I care about the human flaws of those who pushed the ball down the field.








Sue Me.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Here is the thing about we/me the progressive....Old School....I care about the progress of civilization more than I care about the human flaws of those who pushed the ball down the field.








Sue Me.
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He was not a very nice man at times, not least of his sins was beating up women.

Miles Davis was a veritable genius. There’s no question in my mind. Kind Of Blue is a masterpiece; “All Blues” is timeless song, one for the history books. Bitches’ Brew is probably one of the most important albums of its era, combining jazz and rock influences into something entirely new. Davis had the ability to produce tracks that are mellow and tranquil, like “Blue In Green,” and tracks that are jarring and galvanizing, like “Bitches Brew.” His range of mastery is astonishing. Every note feels intentional, even at its most uncontrolled.

He came of age in an era of incredible racism, and he somehow managed to claw out surpassing success in his chosen profession.

https://www.avclub.com/miles-davis-beat-his-wives-and-made-beautiful-music-1798242163
 
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serendipity said:
He was not a very nice man at times, not least of his sins was beating up women.

Miles Davis was a genius. There’s no question in my mind. Kind Of Blue is a masterpiece; “All Blues” is timeless song, one for the history books. Bitches’ Brew is probably one of the most important albums of its era, combining jazz and rock influences into something entirely new. Davis had the ability to produce tracks that are mellow and tranquil, like “Blue In Green,” and tracks that are jarring and galvanizing, like “Bitches Brew.” His range of mastery is astonishing. Every note feels intentional, even at its most uncontrolled. He came of age in an era of incredible racism, and he somehow managed to claw out surpassing success in his chosen profession.
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Miles could really blow--no true music lover could deny that.
He could write, too.

Still, the post bop era of Miles and 'trane was never quite as accessible to me, mentally,
as the pure bebop of Bird, Dizzy, and Monk.

There was no denying the craft, however.
 
serendipity said:
He was not a very nice man at times, not least of his sins was beating up women.

Miles Davis was a veritable genius. There’s no question in my mind. Kind Of Blue is a masterpiece; “All Blues” is timeless song, one for the history books. Bitches’ Brew is probably one of the most important albums of its era, combining jazz and rock influences into something entirely new. Davis had the ability to produce tracks that are mellow and tranquil, like “Blue In Green,” and tracks that are jarring and galvanizing, like “Bitches Brew.” His range of mastery is astonishing. Every note feels intentional, even at its most uncontrolled.

He came of age in an era of incredible racism, and he somehow managed to claw out surpassing success in his chosen profession.

https://www.avclub.com/miles-davis-beat-his-wives-and-made-beautiful-music-1798242163
Click to expand...

Do you like the Blues? This is good. Great guitar.

 
Bonamassa, one of my people as it were, can really play.

I'm partial to piano and horns, normally,
but his guitar work is really formidable.
 
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