Holocaust denial poll results

[Minister of Truth]

True. But that is true of all younger generations the farther we go back in history. Today's older citizens know about WWII but little about WWI.

Historical associations have articles from the 1800s bemoaning the lack of historical knowledge of the youth of that day.

I think it's been believed for a long time that WWI is a cautionary tale about choices and the lessons of history. Thus, the advent of WWII is often blamed on people not learning from the past.

My dad's history curriculum (1961-1965) actually ended right after WWI. I took AP US History, so, I am not certain where it got for my peers (2000-2004), but, I do know that in HS, it started in 1877, and might have gotten into the Cold War.

There has definitely been a conscious effort to deemphasize history curriculum in order to teach to standardized tests. In the past, they were at least hopeful that they could get through to the students.

 

[Cypress]

That is a good sign.

Perhaps the public school should take note. Stop teaching grievances, and start teaching history.

I do not know what you mean by teaching grievances. I have never had a single class which caricatured indigenous people and black people as the good guys, and white Anglo Saxons as the bad guys.

A robust history curriculum is part of a classical liberal education. A liberal education always faces a head wind against those reactionaries who feel the overwhelming emphasis should be reading, writing, arithmetic, and preparation for STEM curriculum.

 

[Irish]

I do not know what you mean by teaching grievances. I have never had a single class which caricatured indigenous people and black people as the good guys, and white Anglo Saxons as the bad guys.

A robust history curriculum is part of a classical liberal education. A liberal education always faces a head wind against those reactionaries who feel the overwhelming emphasis should be reading, writing, arithmetic, and preparation for STEM curriculum.

There has to be reason why young people are being raised/taught to hate their country.

Look at the 1619 project. Since the BLM/1619 riots, schools have admitted they will start teaching more about "institutional racism." IE grievances.

I have a feeling if they learnt instead, about how many white men died in the civil war freeing slaves, and in ww2 fighting imperialism and Nazi's, they might not hate the country so much.

 

[Cypress]

There has to be reason why young people are being raised/taught to hate their country.

Look at the 1619 project. Since the BLM/1619 riots, schools have admitted they will start teaching more about "institutional racism." IE grievances.

I have a feeling if they learnt instead, about how many white men died in the civil war freeing slaves, and in ww2 fighting imperialism and Nazi's, they might not hate the country so much.

I have met exaxtly zero Americans in RL who hate their country.

White abolitionists are well represented in history books and the popular consciousness: Harriet Beecher Stowe, John Brown, William Lloyd Garrison. Americans of all colors fought in the civil war and ww2

 

[christiefan915]

This thread is how the youth don't know about the Holocaust. Try to keep up.

You are the one who threw in this non sequitur "So America is ONLY bad. Can't show when we defeated Nazi's" and I responded to it. Do try to pay attention.

 

[christiefan915]

There has to be reason why young people are being raised/taught to hate their country.

Look at the 1619 project. Since the BLM/1619 riots, schools have admitted they will start teaching more about "institutional racism." IE grievances.

I have a feeling if they learnt instead, about how many white men died in the civil war freeing slaves, and in ww2 fighting imperialism and Nazi's, they might not hate the country so much.

^ Who told you that, trump? It sounds like the kind of lie that emanates from his pie hole every single day.

 

[christiefan915]

Civilian losses too- in excess of 20 million civilian dead.

Yes, I didn't mean to leave off those deaths.

 

[Iolo/Penderyn]

Moron post. We were giving the soviets a shit ton of equipment. Pulled german army from the east, and occupied Japan's time so they wouldn't invade the east of the ussr.

Your sense of time is as fucked-up as your politics, kid.

 

[Code1211]

FIRST-EVER 50-STATE SURVEY ON HOLOCAUST KNOWLEDGE OF AMERICAN MILLENNIALS AND GEN Z REVEALS SHOCKING RESULTS

Disturbing Findings Reveal Significant Number Of Millennials and Gen Z Can’t Name A Single Concentration Camp Or Ghetto;

Believe That Two Million Or Fewer Jews Were Killed;

Concerning Percentage Believe That Jews Caused The Holocaust

http://www.claimscon.org/millennial-study/

The states with the highest Holocaust Knowledge Scores are: Wisconsin, Minnesota, Massachusetts, Maine, Kansas, Nebraska, Pennsylvania, Idaho, Iowa, and Montana

The states with the lowest Holocaust Knowledge Scores are: Alaska, Delaware, Maryland, New York, Georgia, Hawaii, Louisiana, Florida, Mississippi, and Arkansas.

In the 60's, the USA was Number 1 in education. Now we're down around 25 overall and, in the STEM disciplines, down around 35.

English teachers are trying to "destabilize" attitudes held by their students with which they disagree instead of teaching their topic matter.

Math teachers are teaching ways to measure the advance of preferred ideologies.

About 90% of the participants of our education complex are raving leftists unconcerned with teaching their subjects and consumed with ideological indoctrination.

This perversion has warped the entire system. Online learning has moved the lying propagandists to demand that parents sign documents promising to not watch the lessons taught.

Our educational system stopped being what we intend for it to be and has become more similar to the schools in dictatorial countries engineered to promote a particular political affiliation.

WAKE UP AMERICA!

We need school choice and a robust national program to institute and fund alternative schools, particularly in the inner cities the less affluent rural areas.

 

[moon]

I think it is fairly common knowlege that Nazis killed many people of supposed subhuman origins, including Romani, Slavs, etc. If it is not widely known, it should be

Yes- and as modern researchers state that the death camp toll is between 16-20 million murdered it really isn't accurate to record the Holocaust as an almost exclusively Jewish event. Further, I know several Jews, men and women, who claim that such research is ' antisemitic ' Now THAT is WEIRD ! They actually WANT the Holocaust records to fit their narrative- which they don't. As guno pointed out earlier- the Jewish disaster is known as ' The Shoah '. ' The Holocaust ' relates to the victims overall.

 

[Iolo/Penderyn]

So what? There have been tons of mass murders throughout history, why should only the Holocaust matter? How many people can name the gulag camps?

The gulags weren't designed to kill people on an industrial scale: the nazi murders were the (I hope ultimate) expression of industrial capitalism.

 

[Cypress]

Yes- and as modern researchers state that the death camp toll is between 16-20 million murdered it really isn't accurate to record the Holocaust as an almost exclusively Jewish event. Further, I know several Jews, men and women, who claim that such research is ' antisemitic ' Now THAT is WEIRD ! They actually WANT the Holocaust records to fit their narrative- which they don't. As guno pointed out earlier- the Jewish disaster is known as ' The Shoah '. ' The Holocaust ' relates to the victims overall.

I am sure one can find research in the depths of the internet to support any contention.

I am going to defer to peer reviewed mainstream scholarship which generally concludes the death camps at Auschwitz, Treblika, et al were primarily intended to address the "Jewish Question" and to murder the entirety of Europe's Jewish communities.

On the flip side, all the other war crimes of WW2 also deserve a place in public education.

 

[moon]

I am sure one can find research in the depths of the internet to support any contention.

I referring to mainstream research. I'm not Comrade maggot.

I am going to defer to peer reviewed mainstream scholarship which generally concludes the death camps at Auschwitz, Treblika, et al were primarily intended to address the "Jewish Question" and murder the entirety of Europe's Jewish communities.

All the other war crimes of WW2 also deserve a place in public education.

OK- I'll try to change your mind.

 

[moon]

While the term Holocaust generally refers to the systematic mass murder of the Jewish people in German-occupied Europe, the Nazis also murdered a large number of non-Jewish people who were also considered subhuman (Untermenschen) or undesirable. Some victims belonged to several categories targeted for extermination, e.g. an assimilated Jew who was a member of a communist party or someone of Jewish ancestry who identified as one of Jehovah's Witnesses.
Taking into account all of the victims of persecution, the Nazis systematically murdered an estimated six million Jews and an additional 11 million people during the war. Donald Niewyk suggests that the broadest definition, including Soviet civilian deaths, would produce a death toll of 17 million.[

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_victims

 

[moon]

Are you open to new research, Cypress ?

The new figures of 15 to 20 million, which have astonished some Holocaust historians, come after thirteen years of painstaking study at Washington's Holocaust Memorial Museum . Historians at the museum brought together and studied the huge amount, and often disparate, files and research on the Holocaust.

"The results of our research are shocking," Geoffrey Megargee, the director of the study, told The Independent newspaper. "We are putting together numbers that no one ever compiled before, even for camp systems that have been fairly well researched - and many of them have not been."

https://www.businessinsider.com/sho...lled-up-to-20-million-people-2013-3?r=US&IR=T

The research covered some 42,400 camps and ghettos across Europe, and also included forced-labour camps and Nazi "care" centres where pregnant women were forced to have an abortion or had their child killed right after giving birth. It also drew in camps, prisons and killing grounds used by Nazi puppet regimes in countries such as France and Romania.


"The numbers are so much higher than what we originally thought," Hartmut Berghoff, director of the German Historical Institute in America, said in an interview after learning of the new data. "We knew before how horrible life in the camps and ghettos was but the numbers are unbelievable.

 

[Cypress]

Are you open to new research, Cypress ?

From your study:

"As Germany invaded and began occupying European neighbors, the use of camps and ghettos was expanded to confine and sometimes kill not only Jews but also homosexuals, Gypsies, Poles, Russians and many other ethnic groups in Eastern Europe."
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ny...the-holocaust-just-got-more-shocking.amp.html

I have repeatedly said that the crimes against Romanis and Slavs should be acknowledged. And I have yet to meet an educated person to who denies it. I think I have been aware of the persecution and murder of Romani by Nazis for over 40 years

I also know there is a long history of neo Nazis, white Christian nationalists, KKK, trying to minimize the holocaust by trying to claim Jews were not the primary target, not that many jews were killed anyway, and maybe it was Jews' fault it happened.

Fealty to history requires us to be alert to these tactics.

I am not saying you are doing it, but well known anti-Semites on this forum have advanced those claims for years.

The industrial scale mass murder program was unrepresented in the holocaust. The primary victims of the death camps were Jews, but I do not know a single person who thinks we should not acknowledge the murder of Romani people too

 

[moon]

From your study:


I have repeatedly said that the crimes against Romanis and Slavs should be acknowledged. And I have yet to meet an educated person to who denies it. I think I have been aware of the persecution and murder of Romani by Nazis for over 40 years

I also know there is a long history of neo Nazis, white Christian nationalists, KKK, trying to minimize the holocaust by trying to claim Jews were not the primary target, not that many jews were killed anyway, and maybe it was Jews' fault it happened.

Fealty to history requires us to be alert to these tactics.

I am not saying you are doing it, but well known anti-Semites on this forum have advanced those claims for years.

The industrial scale mass murder program was unrepresented in the holocaust. The primary victims of the death camps were Jews, but I do not know a single person who thinks we should not acknowledge the murder of Romani people too

I'm not disagreeing with anything you've said according to the previously accepted narrative that the Holocaust can be described by the murder of six million Jews - along with some other minority groups. However, research shows that Jews comprised about one-third of the victims and so that aspect of the narrative must be adjusted. The Holocaust killed 16-20 million people including 6 million Jews. That's how the narrative should read if you want to emphasize the Jewish victims. Placing Jews centrally in the statistics of the narrative is incorrect- although I fully understand how some folk would want to place Jews front and center emotionally. However, it is incorrect for you to state that ' The primary victims of the death camps were Jews '. To the Nazis, gypsies were considered equally dangerous to the Reich. As I said- gypsies were forced into the Warsaw Ghetto with Jews.

 

[Into the Night]

FIRST-EVER 50-STATE SURVEY ON HOLOCAUST KNOWLEDGE OF AMERICAN MILLENNIALS AND GEN Z REVEALS SHOCKING RESULTS

Disturbing Findings Reveal Significant Number Of Millennials and Gen Z Can’t Name A Single Concentration Camp Or Ghetto;

Believe That Two Million Or Fewer Jews Were Killed;

Concerning Percentage Believe That Jews Caused The Holocaust

http://www.claimscon.org/millennial-study/

The states with the highest Holocaust Knowledge Scores are: Wisconsin, Minnesota, Massachusetts, Maine, Kansas, Nebraska, Pennsylvania, Idaho, Iowa, and Montana

The states with the lowest Holocaust Knowledge Scores are: Alaska, Delaware, Maryland, New York, Georgia, Hawaii, Louisiana, Florida, Mississippi, and Arkansas.

Polls are completely meaningless.

 

[Into the Night]

The significant percentage who believe Jews themselves are to blame for the holocaust are far worse than deniers or misinformed dunces..

Random number. Argument from randU fallacy. You don't get to speak for other people. You only get to speak for you.

 

[Into the Night]

Attempted Whataboutism.
I literally have met zero people who blame people of the Jewish religion for terrorism. There are people who believe rightwing governments in the state of Israel commit war crimes on Palestinian civilians.

In contrast, I have run across many, real actual Nazi anti Semites on message boards and in RL

There are no Nazis. The Nazi party was destroyed in WW2.