Homage to the true European explorers of America

[Cypress]

L'Anse aux Meadows likely is not the only place the Vikings visited in North America.
It is increasingly certain that within the decade more widespread evidence of Viking exploration in North America will be found.

Putting Christoper Columbus in his place as a second-rate European explorer.

Rus!

Evidence of Viking Outpost Found in Canada
Sharpeners may be smoking guns in quest for New World's second Viking site.

For the past 50 years—since the discovery of a thousand-year-old Viking way station in Newfoundland—archaeologists and amateur historians have combed North America's east coast searching for traces of Viking visitors.

It has been a long, fruitless quest, littered with bizarre claims and embarrassing failures. But at a conference in Canada earlier this month, archaeologist Patricia Sutherland announced new evidence that points strongly to the discovery of the second Viking outpost ever discovered in the Americas.

While digging in the ruins of a centuries-old building on Baffin Island (map), far above the Arctic Circle, a team led by Sutherland, adjunct professor of archaeology at Memorial University in Newfoundland and a research fellow at the University of Aberdeen in Scotland, found some very intriguing whetstones. Wear grooves in the blade-sharpening tools bear traces of copper alloys such as bronze—materials known to have been made by Viking metalsmiths but unknown among the Arctic's native inhabitants.

Taken together with her earlier discoveries, Sutherland's new findings further strengthen the case for a Viking camp on Baffin Island. "While her evidence was compelling before, I find it convincing now," said James Tuck, professor emeritus of archaeology, also at Memorial University.

continued

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...outpost-second-new-canada-science-sutherland/

 

[Mott the Hoople]

L'Anse aux Meadows likely is not the only place the Vikings visited in North America.
It is increasingly certain that within the decade more widespread evidence of Viking exploration in North America will be found.

Putting Christoper Columbus in his place as a second-rate European explorer.

Rus!

If you want to know the real early North American Explorers it was the French traders known as the courrier du bois. They were really the first to explore the North American interior west of the Appalachian, the Great Lakes Region and the Mississippi River valley and its tributaries.

I've studied a lot of the American Frontier history, mainly focused on the Great Lakes region. Some names of historical figures to study who have fascinating histories are Daniel Boone (of course), Sir William Johnson (Waragiagay), Simon Kenton (Cutahotha), Simon Girty, George Rogers Clark, Benjamin Harrison (Ole Tippicanoe), Techumseh, Black Fish (Cottawamago), Corn Stalk (Hosqulesqu), Blue Jacket (Wayasepersinwa) and and the next most famous person from my hometown, after Neil Armstrong, Black Hoof (Catecahassa).

 

[Mott the Hoople]

I'd also recommend reading the winning of America series by Alan W. Eckert starting with his first book "The Frontiersman" which is a biographical historical novel covering the lives of the famous Frontiersman Simon Kenton and the great Shawnee leader Tecumseh.

Eckert, in his books, I believe there are 6 or 7 in all, covers the frontier history of New York and the Western Frontier (The Great Lakes Region). Really fascinating and compelling reading. The Native Americans who defended those regions were an extremely formidable and dangerous opponents and the Frontiersman and settlers who conquered them were some incredibly tough people who viscerally understood that this was the most valuable land in North America.

 

[Cypress]

If you want to know the real early North American Explorers it was the French traders known as the courrier du bois. They were really the first to explore the North American interior west of the Appalachian, the Great Lakes Region and the Mississippi River valley and its tributaries.

I've studied a lot of the American Frontier history, mainly focused on the Great Lakes region. Some names of historical figures to study who have fascinating histories are Daniel Boone (of course), Sir William Johnson (Waragiagay), Simon Kenton (Cutahotha), Simon Girty, George Rogers Clark, Benjamin Harrison (Ole Tippicanoe), Techumseh, Black Fish (Cottawamago), Corn Stalk (Hosqulesqu), Blue Jacket (Wayasepersinwa) and and the next most famous person from my hometown, after Neil Armstrong, Black Hoof (Catecahassa).

Good points, all.

As Europeans, the French are under-rated in terms of the extent they ventured out across the continent. A very good insight by you.

The little kid in me always wanted the legends to be true that pre-Colombian Chinese seafarers made it to North America. But the scientist in me finds the evidence to be quite underwhelming!

Author John Ruskamp claims to have found pictograms from the ancient Chinese Shang Dynasty etched into rocks in America

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/science...e-Asians-lived-New-World-3-300-years-ago.html

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Good points, all.

As Europeans, the French are under-rated in terms of the extent they ventured out across the continent. A very good insight by you.

The little kid in me always wanted the legends to be true that pre-Colombian Chinese seafarers made it to North America. But the scientist in me finds the evidence to be quite underwhelming!

Who knows, they may have discovered it but to be honest, if they did, they kept it a secret...which makes the accomplishment rather insignificant. Discovery is one thing but if it isn't followed up with exploration it doesn't mean a lot. Hats off to the Spanish and English and French explorers but the French explorers earned my deepest respect as they were able to explore and create a vast empire and did so without slaughtering the original Native Americans who had been here for millenia.

 

[Cypress]

Who knows, they may have discovered it but to be honest, if they did, they kept it a secret...which makes the accomplishment rather insignificant. Discovery is one thing but if it isn't followed up with exploration it doesn't mean a lot. Hats off to the Spanish and English and French explorers but the French explorers earned my deepest respect as they were able to explore and create a vast empire and did so without slaughtering the original Native Americans who had been here for millenia.

My opinion, as well.
But European standards of the 17th century, the French seems to have been relatively benign towards the native populations.

Also when one gets around to considering Africa, it also seems that by 19th century standards of European exploitation of Africa, the French colonies and native peoples of West Africa were treated at least nominally better by France than were the African colonies of Belgium, Portugal, Germany, and Italy.

I wonder if all the wine makes the French a little more mellow?

 

[Mott the Hoople]

My opinion, as well.
But European standards of the 17th century, the French seems to have been relatively benign towards the native populations.

Also when one gets around to considering Africa, it also seems that by 19th century standards of European exploitation of Africa, the French colonies and native peoples of West Africa were treated at least nominally better by France than were the African colonies of Belgium, Portugal, Germany, and Italy.

I wonder if all the wine makes the French a little more mellow?

Oui.

 

[archives]

Who knows, they may have discovered it but to be honest, if they did, they kept it a secret...which makes the accomplishment rather insignificant. Discovery is one thing but if it isn't followed up with exploration it doesn't mean a lot. Hats off to the Spanish and English and French explorers but the French explorers earned my deepest respect as they were able to explore and create a vast empire and did so without slaughtering the original Native Americans who had been here for millenia.

Was the French attitude toward the Native American population motivated by benevolence or because they knew they could use them, they didn't have a lot of allies available in an English dominated frontier

 

[Flash]

L'Anse aux Meadows likely is not the only place the Vikings visited in North America.
It is increasingly certain that within the decade more widespread evidence of Viking exploration in North America will be found.

Putting Christoper Columbus in his place as a second-rate European explorer.

Rus!

If the Viking explorations were unknown they meant little. Columbus explorations made Europe aware of the New World and its colonization.

 

[Sailor]

Was the French attitude toward the Native American population motivated by benevolence or because they knew they could use them, they didn't have a lot of allies available in an English dominated frontier

Kind of hard to do any harm when you are running the other way. Just saying.

 

[Cypress]

If the Viking explorations were unknown they meant little. Columbus explorations made Europe aware of the New World and its colonization.

I know.
But being connected by DNA to the Rus, I am trying to hog credit for my Norwegian viking cousins.

 

[Cypress]

Was the French attitude toward the Native American population motivated by benevolence or because they knew they could use them, they didn't have a lot of allies available in an English dominated frontier

17th century European colonizers rarely had pure and altruistic motivations.

I think the point being brought to bear is that native people of the Americas suffered less at the hands of the French colonialists, than they did at the hands of the Spanish, Portuguese, or English.

 

[Flash]

I know.
But being connected by DNA to the Rus, I am trying to hog credit for my Norwegian viking cousins.

They were good at keeping secrets. Or, they had an ineffective PR team.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

Was the French attitude toward the Native American population motivated by benevolence or because they knew they could use them, they didn't have a lot of allies available in an English dominated frontier

The indigenous ppl much preferred the French trappers because they understood the land and forests like they did. Many of the trappers married native women as well. The French govt. looked at the natives as a resource to gain access to the land and its resources, and eventually as an ally against the British and the Americans. The record of the relationship between the French and the First Nations ppl of Canada is not a happy one.

 

[Cypress]

The indigenous ppl much preferred the French trappers because they understood the land and forests like they did. Many of the trappers married native women as well. The French govt. looked at the natives as a resource to gain access to the land and its resources, and eventually as an ally against the British and the Americans. The record of the relationship between the French and the First Nations ppl of Canada is not a happy one.

I really appreciate it when true knowledge and expertise shows up on a thread.

As far as I can tell, jpp dot com is mostly known for arm-waving, bullsh*ting, and posturing by wannabe armchair experts!

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

I really appreciate it when true knowledge and expertise shows up on a thread.

As far as I can tell, jpp dot com is mostly known for arm-waving, bullsh*ting, and posturing by wannabe armchair experts!

I suppose in its cute and childish way, the blustering and bullshitting is showing expertise as well. lol

 

[Cypress]

They were good at keeping secrets. Or, they had an ineffective PR team.

I suspect the Vikings ultimately decided that North America was not going to be an economic resource they could leverage.

The Vikings had a really hard time making Greenland economically viable for trade, given the ship and navigation technology available in the 12th century. North America would be a long shot. North America must have ultimately appeared to them to be a futile economic venture, especially in the face of the purported hostility and attacks by the Skraelings

 

[Judy Johnstone]

The indigenous ppl much preferred the French trappers because they understood the land and forests like they did. Many of the trappers married native women as well. The French govt. looked at the natives as a resource to gain access to the land and its resources, and eventually as an ally against the British and the Americans. The record of the relationship between the French and the First Nations ppl of Canada is not a happy one.

Native Americans were fucked as soon as Europeans knew there was a continent to loot!

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

Native Americans were fucked as soon as Europeans knew there was a continent to loot!

Two continents to be exact.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Was the French attitude toward the Native American population motivated by benevolence or because they knew they could use them, they didn't have a lot of allies available in an English dominated frontier

Well it was certainly motivated by self interest. The French were more interested in trading than settling and farming thus they had little interest in owning the land.