How does China cheat on trade? Let us count the ways

noise said:
do you seriously want to talk about currency manipulation?
China has been doing that as well - though not of late. They've been busy with Made in China 2025

I have no idea what the F*** you are yammering on about gold standards or whatever.

Start your own thread about those, this is about CURRENT US-China bi-lateral talks!
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We cheated. That was what the op is all about.

you are a little cry baby. Sorry you are struggling. The world needs ditch diggers - and in America, those ditch diggers live like kings compared to the rest of the world.
 
zymurgy said:
We cheated. That was what the op is all about.

you are a little cry baby. Sorry you are struggling. The world needs ditch diggers - and in America, those ditch diggers live like kings compared to the rest of the world.
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They do. I agree with this. Have said similar things myself. So why is one party falling all over itself to give more to those less fortunate than helping them help themselves get a leg up?
 
Sailor said:
They do. I agree with this. Have said similar things myself. So why is one party falling all over itself to give more to those less fortunate than helping them help themselves get a leg up?
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they are buying power and influence

the other party is using the same exploitation to be a world empire.
 
zymurgy said:
We cheated. That was what the op is all about.

you are a little cry baby. Sorry you are struggling. The world needs ditch diggers - and in America, those ditch diggers live like kings compared to the rest of the world.
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dolt.
The OP is about trade, theft. You run in some spurious crap about what? 1970's crap without even a cite.

The world needs ditch diggers - and in America, those ditch diggers live like kings compared to the rest of the world.
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the future is high tech,and that's why China is stealing it.
 
zymurgy said:
I'm sorry your trailer isn't a double wide. Maybe the right about of government intervention will solve your status as a pathetic loser.
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You couldn't afford to live in my neighborhood loser boy. The notion that I am for government intervention is laughably stupid and defies any connection to reality or the truth.

You can't even whine with any dignity. :rofl2:
 
Sailor said:
I agree with that also. The big question is how does it get resolved? Both side are thoroughly entrenched.
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bilateral trade talks...They are not supposed to be tied to Chinese hegemony.
Xi has basically said Made in China 2025 is their goal,and they lie about reform and just do what they want to.

The WTO is powerless. You have to play hard ball
 
Truth Detector said:
You couldn't afford to live in my neighborhood loser boy. The notion that I am for government intervention is laughably stupid and defies any connection to reality or the truth.

You can't even whine with any dignity. :rofl2:
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right. you aren't for government intervention - just tariffs to prevent unfair trade.

you are as stupid as they come
 
noise said:
Peter Navarro arguably has the toughest job in the White House.

You see, Dr. Navarro directs the White House Office of Trade and Manufacturing Policy. He comes to work every day to be greeted by new evidence of China’s no-holds-barred economic war against the United States, from its cheating on trade to its theft of intellectual property.

His findings are summarized in a new report entitled,
“How China’s Economic Aggression Threatens the Technologies and Intellectual Property of the United States and the World.”

The report itself is 36 pages long, but I can summarize it in two words: China cheats.

China cheats by protecting its home market from American imports with high tariffs, tricky non-tariff barriers, and costly, constantly changing regulations.

China cheats by subsidizing the exports of government-owned “national champions” to crush its free market competitors and dominate global markets.

China cheats by preying on weak counties, locking up their natural resources with “debt traps” in an obvious effort to gain a global stranglehold on key resources like bauxite, copper, nickel, and rare earths.
These monopolies are not only being used to fuel China’s industrial machine, but to punish those countries who would oppose its predatory policies.

China cheats by subsidizing manufacturing with cheap loans and cheap energy, and also by turning a blind eye to environment, health and safety standards. Because of its cheating, it already dominates industries ranging from ship production and refrigerators, to color TV sets, air conditioners, and computers.

Above all, China cheats by stealing key technologies and intellectual property from the United States and other countries. These activities range from cyberespionage and forced technology transfer down to massive open-source collection and plain-old physical theft.
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Peter Navarro is a well known crank. Hilarious that he is referred to as "Dr. Navarro" here to increase his credibility, yeah technically you can refer to any academic with a Ph. D. as "Dr." but generally only the very insecure do it. I've never heard anyone say "Dr. Krugman", or "Dr. Barack Obama", or "Dr. Tammy Duckworth".

color TV sets
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Wow, color TV sets, that breathtaking brand new technology.

Boomer alert.
 
noise said:
bilateral trade talks...They are not supposed to be tied to Chinese hegemony.
Xi has basically said Made in China 2025 is their goal,and they lie about reform and just do what they want to.

The WTO is powerless. You have to play hard ball
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A return to bilateral trade deals is a huge step backwards honestly, the system is breaking down.
 
noise said:
do you seriously want to talk about currency manipulation?
China has been doing that as well - though not of late. They've been busy with Made in China 2025

I have no idea what the F*** you are yammering on about gold standards or whatever.

Start your own thread about those, this is about CURRENT US-China bi-lateral talks!
Click to expand...

It's pretty standard behavior among nations that want to develop to try and weaken your currency to grow an industrial base initially, and then level off that once your economy has developed enough and you want to focus on building a domestic consumer market. Really almost all of this stuff that China's doing is something that every country that has developed has done, and stuff that the US itself did when it was young and needed to establish itself. Developed countries don't do that stuff because it's not in their interests - i.e. a weakly developed country probably doesn't care much about IP laws, but once they've grown developed a large IP base of their own it suddenly becomes a big deal. China's in the transitional phase.
 
Nordberg said:
What crap. The US corporations moved their industries to China for cheap unprotected labor and no environmental regulation. When they moved manufacturing there, they moved our systems, technology and everything else we spent a century developing. Now we claim they are stealing ? http://www.jiesworld.com/international_corporations_in_china.htm These are your unAmerican companies. They are using their power to end tariffs and trade restraints. They are talking whatever we develop to improve manufacturing directly there. Fact is the future of manufacturing will go to the manufacturers, which is China . Production is where improvements are made.
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It is a plain fact that a lot of companies signed stupid agreements with Chinese companies that gave them permanent access to their IP, hoping to use it as a bargaining chip to get access to their cheap labor and thinking their too stupid to know what to do with it anyway. Then they act shocked when the Chinese company walks away from the agreement in a couple of years and then becomes a competitor.
 
noise said:
Suffice to say, if you can imagine a way to steal intellectual property, the Chinese Party-State already has an official government program in place to do just that.

The point of all this cheating is not hard to understand. China wants to capture the emerging hi-tech industries of the future with one goal in mind: to replace the United States as the world’s dominant power.
 (Made in china 2025)
This is President-for-Life Xi Jinping’s “China Dream,” and it is revealing that he no longer hesitates to admit it.

The old rule in Communist Party circles was that China should “bide its time and hide its capabilities.” This rule, laid down by Paramount Leader Deng Xiaoping in the 1980s, presupposed that China’s success lay in stealth.

Deng intended that China would quietly gain ground on the reigning superpower, the United States, without alarming it. His rule was carefully followed by successors Jiang Zemin and Hu Jintao.

But the economic malaise of the Obama years convinced many in Beijing that America’s best days were behind it. Believing that China’s time has come, Xi Jinping no longer bothers to bide his time or hide China’s capabilities.

Xi’s openness about his global ambitions tells us something very important: He believes China’s future dominance is virtually a foregone conclusion.

Peter Navarro’s report tells something equally important: That China is engaging in unrestricted economic warfare—violating every agreement on patents, trade, and intellectual property it has ever signed--in order to achieve this goal.

The China threat has become so obvious that even many Democrats support Trump’s tough policies on trade. Even Chuck Schumer, who seemingly never opens his mouth these days except to criticize the president, supports Trump on tariffs. He warns that allowing China's massive stealing to continue will cause "long-term real damage to America."

Actually, as Navarro documents, China has already done an incredible amount of damage to America.

Is there still time to stop the criminal enterprise that is China, Inc., from stealing its way to the top?
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/06/25/how-does-china-cheat-on-trade-let-us-count-ways.html
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It is basically inevitable that China will eventually exceed the US in terms of raw economic output in the 21st century. Good thing we have a network of alliances with strong western powers that enables us to balance that out though right? Oh wait Trump's decided to throw that all to the wind. Guess we're fucked then.
 
zymurgy said:
bwahahaha

you really have no fucking clue.
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I think it is obvious you have no clue.

giphy.gif
 
The Wokest said:
It's pretty standard behavior among nations that want to develop to try and weaken your currency to grow an industrial base initially, and then level off that once your economy has developed enough and you want to focus on building a domestic consumer market. Really almost all of this stuff that China's doing is something that every country that has developed has done, and stuff that the US itself did when it was young and needed to establish itself. Developed countries don't do that stuff because it's not in their interests - i.e. a weakly developed country probably doesn't care much about IP laws, but once they've grown developed a large IP base of their own it suddenly becomes a big deal. China's in the transitional phase.
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They are a mature economy. They got that way by our outsourcing -no blame for China on that.

They don't have a large IP base at all -they just negotiated being able to buy into Silicon valley
as a SOE. Then there are the tariffs which are really trade barriers at the high percentages they impose

But since they joined the WTO they hve done currency manipulation,intellectual property theft on massive scales,
theft of our military R&D - hacking into sensitive OMB records..the list goes on.

When we lodge complaints with the WTO, they say they will stop,and then they don't

Even the Made in China 2025 depends on theft..It has to stop..we've let them slide because of our debt they hold
and because it's just easier to do nothing.enough of all this
 
Nordberg said:
What crap. The US corporations moved their industries to China for cheap unprotected labor and no environmental regulation. When they moved manufacturing there, they moved our systems, technology and everything else we spent a century developing. Now we claim they are stealing ? http://www.jiesworld.com/international_corporations_in_china.htm These are your unAmerican companies. They are using their power to end tariffs and trade restraints. They are talking whatever we develop to improve manufacturing directly there. Fact is the future of manufacturing will go to the manufacturers, which is China . Production is where improvements are made.
Click to expand...

Dude you are like a decade behind. China is not the future of manufacturing. They're not even the present of manufacturing as companies have moved to other SE Asian countries as China has become too expensive.

You don't even know your liberal talking points. Free traders like me are the "enemy" and the reason China joined the WTO and hurt Joe and Jane Q working class
 
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