PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
like we did with Blue Dog Democrats?.....
HOW dumb is Christine O'Donnell??
- Thread starter zappasguitar
- Start date
like we did with Blue Dog Democrats?.....
http://www.justplainpolitics.com/member.php?u=1207
I don't have the time or inclination to address your entire post but I have listened to the debate.....and it is you that is incorrect....
Coon's did absolutely say the "separation of Church of State " was mentioned in the First Amendment.....
and
O'Donnell was clearly making a statement and not asking a question..... It is evident by O'Donnell's tone
as for the crowds response....it took place in law school, a liberal law school in front of law students that a taught that very thing....that "seperation of Church and State is in the First Amendment.....
The words of the first amendment are clear and they make two specific points, nothing more and nothing less.....
Voltaire
Free Thinker
Quote:
Incorrect, Dixie. It is evident by O'Donnell's tone (as well as the response she receives from the crowd) that she was asking a question. Since it is apparent you haven't watched for yourself, here it is. I suggest starting at around 7:00.
Nobody believes that, Coons included. The principle of separation, however, is found in the establishment clause of the First Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion." As James Madison noted,
I don't have the time or inclination to address your entire post but I have listened to the debate.....and it is you that is incorrect....
Coon's did absolutely say the "separation of Church of State " was mentioned in the First Amendment.....
and
O'Donnell was clearly making a statement and not asking a question..... It is evident by O'Donnell's tone
as for the crowds response....it took place in law school, a liberal law school in front of law students that a taught that very thing....that "seperation of Church and State is in the First Amendment.....
The words of the first amendment are clear and they make two specific points, nothing more and nothing less.....
Last edited:
Which Blue Dog did you vote for? How's that working?
“Chris Coons: The Making of a Bearded Marxist.”
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0510/36726.html
In the article, Coons, then 21 years old and about to graduate from Amherst College, chronicled his transformation from a sheltered, conservative-minded college student who had worked for former GOP Delaware Sen. William Roth and had campaigned for Ronald Reagan in 1980 into a cynical young adult who was distrustful of American power and willing to question the American notion of free enterprise.
Coons, the New Castle County executive who is running against GOP Rep. Michael Castle for the state’s open Senate seat, wrote of his political evolution in the May 23, 1985, edition of the Amherst Student.
The source of his conversion, Coons wrote, was a trip to Kenya he took during the spring semester of his junior year—a time away from America, he wrote, that served as a “catalyst” in altering a conservative political outlook that he was growing increasingly uncomfortable with.
“Chris wrote an article about a transformative experience during his semester in Kenya more than twenty-five years ago,” said Hoffman in a statement to POLITICO. “After witnessing crushing poverty and the consequences of the Reagan Administration’s ‘constructive engagement’ with the South African apartheid regime, he rethought his political views, returned to the America he loved and proudly registered as a Democrat.”
In one passage of the article, Coons explains how in the months leading up to the trip abroad “leftists” on campus and college professors had begun to “challenge the basic assumptions” he had formed about America.
---------------------------------
Now you may ignore the truth of this article if you wish.....but it sure makes you look like a peckerhead.
If you read what Coons wrote, you obviously didn't understand it in the least.....
You an apologist, just like the rest....ignore the truth, ignore the facts of history, spin and toe the Dem line....
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
no, just like you aren't going to vote for Murkowski.......a better question would be, how are the Blue Dogs working for you?......aren't the Dems ditching them all this time around?......
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
I've watched it and listened to it, dumbshit... there is no "question mark" in a vocal statement, you perceived a question because you want to perceive a question and pretend O'Donnell is so stupid as to not recognize the First Amendment, something most 5th graders recognize in America, even WITH the dumbed-down liberal public education system! Coons answered her question: "Where is separation of church and state found in the Constitution?" ...He said, "The First Amendment!" Then, he proceeded to recite the First Amendment, which curiously did not include the phrase "separation of church and state" to which she replied... Yes, that (what Coons said) WAS in the Constitution, she agreed. He hem-hawed around and gave some long-winded explanation (like you did) about how the rulings of the Supreme Court had established this intent through their interpretation of the First Amendment, but the point stands, O'Donnell was correct, the phrase "separation of church and state" do not appear anywhere in the Constitution!
Yes, Coons DID "imply" it was in the First Amendment! That was his direct answer to her question! Followed by his long-winded explanation that it's not "really" in there, even though it is! Now here you are, trying to claim the same damn thing! Prohibiting Congress from establishing a national religion is a far cry from complete separation of church and state affairs, I don't give a damn what Madison or Jefferson said, that you can now misconstrue and take entirely out of context, it doesn't change what is written in the Constitution!
The bottom line is, you have absolutely NO understanding what anyone on the right has articulated regarding this issue! I do not believe, Christine O'Donnell does not believe, and no prominent person on the right believes, that government should impose religion on anyone! This debate is about whether people with religiously-based viewpoints, have the right to establish laws based on those viewpoints, and they most certainly DO!
Oh just stop it, you convoluted fucking hypocrite! You do not believe the state has a right to display the 10 Commandments in a building paid for by taxpayers, you don't believe in school prayer, you don't believe religious people should have any say in governance, because you are a liberal pinhead socialist! You are trying to pretend you're not, so that you can maybe sway the opinion of a few 'libertarian' type pinheads, who are about as idiotic as you are on this issue. Nobody buys that you are a conservative, or that you believe in the same concepts of social conservatives on any damn level. Stop lying and deceiving people with your bullshit!
Whenever you started yammering the mindless Coons liberal stupidity about this "wall of separation between church and state!" That's what the debate is, you goofball, not whether or not America should adopt Christianity as an official state religion! Nobody as ever proposed such ridiculousness, no one is advocating such a thing, and the First Amendment expressly forbids that from ever happening anyway!
That's about the only thing you've said that makes any sense at all, but I still believe it's all part of the masquerade. You want to dance around acting like some sort of 'enlightened' religious rightie, who understands things better than us dumb people! You're just a dishonest liberal hack who thinks he's being clever and sly. Give it up, moron, no one is buying your load of crap for one second.
christiefan915
Catalyst
Christine O'Donnell claims Chris Coons has "Marxist beliefs"
"...Conservatives increasingly have been using labels like socialist and Marxist to attack Democrats. With Coons, the case is irresponsibly thin. Praising a Marxist professor from college as "bright and eloquent" does not make one a Marxist. And any clear-eyed reading of Coons' "The Making of a Bearded Marxist" article would make it obvious the "bearded Marxist" line was a joke playing off the jabs of some of Coons' conservative buddies at college. O'Donnell's claim is ridiculously false, so we rate it Pants on Fire."
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...ine-odonnell-claims-chris-coons-has-marxist-/
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
Christine O'Donnell claims Chris Coons has "Marxist beliefs"
"...Conservatives increasingly have been using labels like socialist and Marxist to attack Democrats. With Coons, the case is irresponsibly thin. Praising a Marxist professor from college as "bright and eloquent" does not make one a Marxist. And any clear-eyed reading of Coons' "The Making of a Bearded Marxist" article would make it obvious the "bearded Marxist" line was a joke playing off the jabs of some of Coons' conservative buddies at college. O'Donnell's claim is ridiculously false, so we rate it Pants on Fire."
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...ine-odonnell-claims-chris-coons-has-marxist-/
This is rich, Coons refers to himself as "a bearded Marxist" and his politics are clearly left-wing socialist, yet you want to contend he isn't really a Marxist. It would be like, if Christine O'Donnell were wearing a black pointy hat and riding a broom to campaign stops, and Conservatives were maintaining she really isn't a witch, that was just something she said in jest once! How fucking stupid do you think people are? I mean really? The man professes belief in all kinds of Marxist principles and ideas, and even once admitted he was a Marxist, but he's not really a Marxist? Huh! Go figure that! Of course, those of you who are buying that complete load of shit, are the same people who honestly think Christine O'Donnell was unfamiliar with "congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion!" Something that most of us learned by 5th grade, and probably one of the most widely known sentences in the Constitution, yet this woman, who obviously had sense enough to know what an election was and get on the ballot, was totally unfamiliar with it? You people REALLY believe that!
christiefan915
Catalyst
Did you even read the entire article on Politifact?
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
I don't click Liberal Propaganda links! I don't believe in supporting them with my traffic. I read what you copied and pasted, I have read what he stated in his article, and I have listened to his positions on campaign issues. The man is a socialist Marxist through and through, like most of you pinheads are! You can run from that label all you like, just like you run from the "liberal" label, it doesn't change what you are one little bit.
DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
Where is it in the First Amendment?
Why do you except someone elses opinion as the truth when you read some of what the man says for yourself.
Its amazing you guys link far-left websites as reliable sources and expect others to buy that crap....
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0510/36726.html
christiefan915
Catalyst
Because the man didn't call himself a bearded Marxist, his friends jokingly did. And that's from your article.
“My friends now joke that something about Kenya, maybe the strange diet, or the tropical sun, changed my personality; Africa to them seems a catalytic converter that takes in clean-shaven, clear-thinking Americans and sends back bearded Marxists,” Coons wrote..."
An article Democrat Chris Coons wrote for his college newspaper may not go over so well in corporation-friendly Delaware, where he already faces an uphill battle for Vice President Joe Biden’s old Senate seat.
The title? “Chris Coons: The Making of a Bearded Marxist.”
An article Democrat Chris Coons wrote for his college newspaper
The title? “Chris Coons: The Making of a Bearded Marxist.”
You're gonna deny this ? He didn't write this article?
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0510/36726.html
It could be a lie....I don't know.....if you've got proof of something...link it.
The title? “Chris Coons: The Making of a Bearded Marxist.”
An article Democrat Chris Coons wrote for his college newspaper
The title? “Chris Coons: The Making of a Bearded Marxist.”
You're gonna deny this ? He didn't write this article?
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0510/36726.html
It could be a lie....I don't know.....if you've got proof of something...link it.
christiefan915
Catalyst
Since your reply was so courteous </sarcasm>, here's the article in full.
Christine O'Donnell claims Chris Coons has "Marxist beliefs"
Pants on Fire!
She's a witch? He's a bearded Marxist?
Never a dull moment in the Delaware Senate race between Republican Christine O'Donnell and Democrat Chris Coons.
For anyone who took the witchcraft thing seriously (based on comments O'Donnell made on Bill Maher's former show, "Politically Incorrect" in 1999), O'Donnell addressed that with one of the strangest opening lines of a campaign ad, ever: "I am not a witch."
Coons meanwhile has been accused of being a "bearded Marxist," based on an article he wrote in college. He hasn't addressed that claim in an ad, but he has taken time to clarify that he is a "clean-shaven capitalist" in several national TV interviews.
O'Donnell is apparently not buying it. She repeated the Marxist accusation in an Oct. 13, 2010, debate.
"I would be remiss not to bring up the fact that my opponent has recently said that it was studying under a Marxist professor that made him become a Democrat," O'Donnell said. "So when you look at his position on things like raising taxes, which is one of the tenets of Marxism; not supporting eliminating death tax, which is a tenet of Marxism -- I would argue that there are more people who support my Catholic faith than his Marxist beliefs, and I’m using his own words."
The origin of the Marxism charge is an opinion piece Coons wrote for the Amherst College student newspaper during his senior year. The headline: "Chris Coons: The Making Of A Bearded Marxist."
This is undoubtedly the kind of thing that makes an opposition researcher scream "Cha-ching!"
But you don't have to read too far into the article to get that the "Bearded Marxist" line is hyperbole.
The article, which ran in the Amherst Student on May 23, 1985, describes Coons' transformation from "somewhat of a Republican fanatic" -- who helped found the Amherst College Republicans in 1983 -- to an ardent Democrat, largely as a result of his experiences spending a semester in Kenya during his junior year.
"I spent the spring of my junior year in Africa on the St. Lawrence Kenya Study Program," Coons wrote. "Going to Kenya was one of the few real decisions I have made; my friends, family, and professors all advised against it, but I went anyway. My friends now joke that something about Kenya, maybe the strange diet, or the tropical sun, changed my personality; Africa to them seems a catalytic converter that takes in clean-shaven, clear-thinking Americans and sends back bearded Marxists."
For those who missed the "friends now joke" part, we note that the article is accompanied by a picture of Coons in a jacket and tie with the caption, "A clean-shaven Christopher Coons."
Here's how Coons responded when asked about the article during the Oct. 13, 2010, debate:
"I hope folks will go and read the article," Coons said. "It’s an article that I wrote as a senior the day of our commencement speech, and the title and the content of that clearly makes it obvious that it was a joke. There was a group of folks who I had shared a room with, my roommates junior year, who are in the Young Republican Club and who thought when I returned from Kenya and registered as a Democrat that doing so was proof that I had gone all the way over to the far left end, and so they jokingly called me a bearded Marxist. If you take five minutes and read the article, it's clear on the face of it, it was a joke. Despite that, my opponent and lots of folks in the right wing media have endlessly spun this. I am not now, nor have I ever been, anything but a clean-shaven capitalist."
Said O'Donnell: "Well, I would stand to disagree because, first of all, if you're saying what I said on a comedy show is relevant to this election, then absolutely you writing an article, forget the bearded Marxist comment, you writing an article saying that you learned your beliefs from an articulate, intelligent Marxist professor and that's what made you become a Democrat, that should send chills up the spine of every Delaware voter because then if you compare that statement to your policies ... "
"If it were accurate, if it were true, I’d agree." Coons shot back. "But it's not accurate. It's not true."
In his 1985 article, Coons did praise a Marxist professor he had in Kenya, but he didn't say that what he learned from the professor is what made him become a Democrat. In fact, Coons said in the article that the seeds for change predated his semester in Kenya.
"The point that others ignore is that I was ready to change," Coons wrote. "Experiences at Amherst my first two years made me skeptical and uncomfortable with Republicanism, enough so that I wanted to see the Third World for myself to get some perspective on my beliefs. Certainly Kenya provided a needed catalyst; I saw there poverty and oppression more naked than any in America, and I studied under a bright and eloquent Marxist professor at the University of Nairobi. Nevertheless, it is only too easy to return from Africa glad to be an American and smugly thankful for our wealth and freedom. Instead, Amherst had taught me to question, so in return I questioned Amherst, and America."
He also credits several professors at Amherst with challenging his political perspective.
"More importantly, during my sophomore year, several professors challenged the basic assumptions about America and world relations with which I had grown up. Cultural Anthropology inspired a fascination with other peoples and undermined the accepted value of progress and cultural superiority of the West. In examining the role of 'myths' in primitive cultures, we also studied the myth of equal opportunity in this country, a myth I had never questioned.
"I came to suspect, through these and other courses, that the ideal of America as a 'beacon of freedom and justice, providing hope for the world' was not exactly based on reality."
Coons wrote that he came to Kenya wondering, "Can private enterprise and democracy solve the problems of developing nations? Is Marxism an evil ideology, leading millions into totalitarian slavery? These were some of the questions in the back of my mind as I left for Kenya."
"I realize that Kenya and America are very different, but experiences like this warned me that my own favorite beliefs in the miracles of free enterprise and the boundless opportunity to be had in America might be largely untrue."
Coons' article concluded: "I have spent my senior year re-examining my ideas and have returned to loving America, but in the way of one who has realized its faults and failures and still believes in its promise. The greatest value of Amherst for me, then, has been the role it played in allowing me to question, and to think. I had to see the slums of Nairobi before the slums of New York meant anything at all, but without the experiences of Amherst, I never would have seen either."
Nowhere in the article does Coons cop to being a Marxist. You can read it in its entirety here.
Nor does his resume suggest Marxism. Coons worked as in-house counsel for his stepfather's fabrics company, W.L Gore & Associates, for eight years. In 2000, he was elected New Castle County Council president; and in 2004 was elected New Castle County executive.
So what other evidence to back up O'Donnell's claim that Coons is a Marxist? We didn't hear back from the O'Donnell campaign, but during the debate, O'Donnell said we need look no further than some of Coons' positions, "like raising taxes, which is one of the tenets of Marxism; not supporting eliminating death tax, which is a tenet of Marxism." We wrote yesterday about Coons proposing to raise property taxes by about 50 percent while acting as the New Castle County Executive. But does raising taxes make you a Marxist? By that measure, were Ronald Reagan and George H. W. Bush Marxists? O'Donnell has called for the elimination of estate taxes, and Coons has not. But again, does that make him a Marxist? Hardly. What the Communist Manifesto called for was abolishing the right of inheritance, not allowing inheritance and taxing it.
Conservatives increasingly have been using labels like socialist and Marxist to attack Democrats. With Coons, the case is irresponsibly thin. Praising a Marxist professor from college as "bright and eloquent" does not make one a Marxist. And any clear-eyed reading of Coons' "The Making of a Bearded Marxist" article would make it obvious the "bearded Marxist" line was a joke playing off the jabs of some of Coons' conservative buddies at college. O'Donnell's claim is ridiculously false, so we rate it Pants on Fire.
By Jeffrey Lord on 9.22.10 @ 10:08AM
Amherst College.
May 23, 1985.
The campus newspaper: the Amherst Student.
The much dismissed article written by now Delaware Senate candidate Chris Coons that bore the title: "Chris Coons: The Making of a Bearded Marxist."
(A serious hat tip to Dan Riehl over at Riehl World View.)
Now the title of this article has been bandied about in a few media quarters, only to be laughed at and dismissed. Coons himself leads us to believe that he was just joshing.
The problem? No one is taking the time to really read the contents of the article and connect it to what's going on right this minute in American politics.
As mentioned earlier this week, if what Christine O'Donnell did in high school is important, than what we have here is a very disturbing look at the mind of a man who now thinks he's entitle to a seat in the United States Senate.
Here's Chris Coons on Chris Coons:
"The point that others ignore is that I was ready to change. Experiences at Amherst my first two years made me skeptical and uncomfortable with Republicanism…"
"Kenya provided a needed catalyst; …I studied under a bright and eloquent Marxist professor at the University of Nairobi…"
"Some of the 'Leftists' that I met were terrifyingly persuasive, although I never admitted that."
"…several professors challenged the basic assumptions about America and world relations with which I had grown up…and undermined the accepted value of progress and the cultural superiority of the West."
"I came to suspect…that the ideal of America as 'a beacon of freedom and justice, providing hope for the world' was not exactly based on reality."
"What do other nations think of us? Can private enterprise and democracy solve the problems of developing nations? Is Marxism an evil ideology, leading millions into totalitarian slavery? These were some of the questions in the back of my mind…"
"I realize that Kenya and America are very different, but experiences like this warned me that my own favorite beliefs in the miracles of free enterprise and the boundless opportunities to be had in America might be largely untrue."
Amherst College.
May 23, 1985.
The campus newspaper: the Amherst Student.
The much dismissed article written by now Delaware Senate candidate Chris Coons that bore the title: "Chris Coons: The Making of a Bearded Marxist."
(A serious hat tip to Dan Riehl over at Riehl World View.)
Now the title of this article has been bandied about in a few media quarters, only to be laughed at and dismissed. Coons himself leads us to believe that he was just joshing.
The problem? No one is taking the time to really read the contents of the article and connect it to what's going on right this minute in American politics.
As mentioned earlier this week, if what Christine O'Donnell did in high school is important, than what we have here is a very disturbing look at the mind of a man who now thinks he's entitle to a seat in the United States Senate.
Here's Chris Coons on Chris Coons:
"The point that others ignore is that I was ready to change. Experiences at Amherst my first two years made me skeptical and uncomfortable with Republicanism…"
"Kenya provided a needed catalyst; …I studied under a bright and eloquent Marxist professor at the University of Nairobi…"
"Some of the 'Leftists' that I met were terrifyingly persuasive, although I never admitted that."
"…several professors challenged the basic assumptions about America and world relations with which I had grown up…and undermined the accepted value of progress and the cultural superiority of the West."
"I came to suspect…that the ideal of America as 'a beacon of freedom and justice, providing hope for the world' was not exactly based on reality."
"What do other nations think of us? Can private enterprise and democracy solve the problems of developing nations? Is Marxism an evil ideology, leading millions into totalitarian slavery? These were some of the questions in the back of my mind…"
"I realize that Kenya and America are very different, but experiences like this warned me that my own favorite beliefs in the miracles of free enterprise and the boundless opportunities to be had in America might be largely untrue."
christiefan915
Catalyst
Sheesh, split that hair a little thinner, won't you?
He used in jest the name given by his friends because as he says in the article, "I came to Amherst from a fairly sheltered, privileged and politically-conservative background. I campaigned for reagan in 1980, and spent the summer after freshman year working for Sen. Roth... In the fall of 1983 I was a proud founding member of the Amherst College Republicans...."
http://s3.mediamatters.org/static/images/item/20100920-coonsamherst.pdf
Really, I don't care what O'Donnel claims about Coons and I not too swayed by the spin Coons puts on his past.....lies come easy to a politician....thats in trouble for his past writing, when he can't take the words back.....he said what he said....his excuses now are irrelevant to me....
the topic of the article is the least of what he needs to explain.....its the entire article.
the topic of the article is the least of what he needs to explain.....its the entire article.
Split the hair....
really?
While you agree O'Donnell is stupid because she correctly demands the admission that the claim of
"separation of church and State" IS NOT in our Constitution...?
Talk about splitting hairs...
Rationalist
Hail Voltaire
Google the statement, Dixie. Every transcript of the debate records it as being a question, not a statement. But, remain ignorant if you wish.
As I explained, nobody believes that the phrase "separation of church and state" appears word for word in the First Amendment. The principle is obviously there, however, as prohibiting any level of government (via the 14th Amendment) from respecting an establishment of religion effectively guarantees the state will neither endorse nor express favoritism toward any particular sect. This would, for example, prohibit public school teachers from leading a classroom in Christian prayer, as this would constitute an endorsement of Christianity.
Madison, the author of the First Amendment, was a religious man, but he believed it is in everyone's best interest for religion and state to remain entirely separate. But then, by your own admission you don't care what Madison said:
So you're saying you are more qualified to interpret the First Amendment than the man who drafted it (James Madison)?