Human Beings, Humans, And People
- Thread starter Litmus
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IHateGovernment
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Ornot your application of evil is completely subjective. You saying the usage of the term unborn child is evil has about as much backing as someone claiming that you labling the unborn as a non-person is evil as in none at all.
Frankly I have used such terms and I don't care for the characterization that such usage of language is evil anymore than you would care for the terminiology that you sue being called evil.
I've never liked the term evil anyway. Evil implies doing something differently than the natural spectrum of weight we give to considerations in choosing an action. What is often considered evil is the failure to give weight to a specific consideration.
However terms like sadist or sociopath are often more appropriate than evil in the description of what is often labled as such. Sadism is giving weight to causing harm as a value. Being a sociopath is not giving any weight to any harm caused. Evil I would have to say if we define it as a behavior I would say that it is the choice of an act because one sees the fact that it is considered wrong to actually have value. Few people exhibit such behavior however if any.
Frankly I have used such terms and I don't care for the characterization that such usage of language is evil anymore than you would care for the terminiology that you sue being called evil.
I've never liked the term evil anyway. Evil implies doing something differently than the natural spectrum of weight we give to considerations in choosing an action. What is often considered evil is the failure to give weight to a specific consideration.
However terms like sadist or sociopath are often more appropriate than evil in the description of what is often labled as such. Sadism is giving weight to causing harm as a value. Being a sociopath is not giving any weight to any harm caused. Evil I would have to say if we define it as a behavior I would say that it is the choice of an act because one sees the fact that it is considered wrong to actually have value. Few people exhibit such behavior however if any.
I'm more results oriented than that. I believe that while a person may not be acting on "evil" thoughts, their actions can still produce something that I would call "evil".
IHateGovernment
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I'm sure Ornot would say the same since he is also results oriented. I've always considered evil to be a label on intentions. Results I have tended to use more emotion neutral terms like negative or detrimental.
Evil is a difficult thing to define regardless.
Evil is a difficult thing to define regardless.
Ornot doesn't believe intent means a damn. I never considered that until seeing him write on it. Then, through personal experience, I started to think, maybe he is right.
Your definitions of Sadism and Sociopathy are good examples. Who can really know if someone is taking pleasure in a deed that causes harm, or simply has no capacity or morality to consider it. I wonder that about Bush a lot. But then I realize, you look at the harm he has caused, does it matter if he enjoyed it or just didn't care about it as long as his ends were met? And I don't think it does matter, and that's why I think he's evil.
IHateGovernment
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Ornot doesn't believe intent means a damn. I never considered that until seeing him write on it. Then, through personal experience, I started to think, maybe he is right.
In the cold results of analytical historical analysis this is true. However, when it comes to human relations I would say not. Nothing is more repugnant to human beings than learning a person's guiding principles in an action are guided by 'evil'. When sentencing criminals intent is often given equal or even greater weight than the actual crime.
Your definitions of Sadism and Sociopathy are good examples. Who can really know if someone is taking pleasure in a deed that causes harm, or simply has no capacity or morality to consider it. I wonder that about Bush a lot. But then I realize, you look at the harm he has caused, does it matter if he enjoyed it or just didn't care about it as long as his ends were met? And I don't think it does matter, and that's why I think he's evil.
It's hard to know with Bush. I think Bush is more of a sadist then a sociopath. Evil is a kind of behavior I've only seen of comic book villains. I don't even consider Stalin or Hitler evil so I won't characterize Bush that way.
I suspect Bush may be sadistic however as there is a subtle look of pleasure on his face when he talks about using force or when people talk about suffering. He almost appears as though he is about to laugh.
Dick Cheney I suspect is a sociopath. I don't think that man is capable of receiving pleasure from anything. His policies seem to be created out of single minded consideration of his own goals with concern of others having 0 weight.
In the cold results of analytical historical analysis this is true. However, when it comes to human relations I would say not. Nothing is more repugnant to human beings than learning a person's guiding principles in an action are guided by 'evil'. When sentencing criminals intent is often given equal or even greater weight than the actual crime.
Your definitions of Sadism and Sociopathy are good examples. Who can really know if someone is taking pleasure in a deed that causes harm, or simply has no capacity or morality to consider it. I wonder that about Bush a lot. But then I realize, you look at the harm he has caused, does it matter if he enjoyed it or just didn't care about it as long as his ends were met? And I don't think it does matter, and that's why I think he's evil.
It's hard to know with Bush. I think Bush is more of a sadist then a sociopath. Evil is a kind of behavior I've only seen of comic book villains. I don't even consider Stalin or Hitler evil so I won't characterize Bush that way.
I suspect Bush may be sadistic however as there is a subtle look of pleasure on his face when he talks about using force or when people talk about suffering. He almost appears as though he is about to laugh.
Dick Cheney I suspect is a sociopath. I don't think that man is capable of receiving pleasure from anything. His policies seem to be created out of single minded consideration of his own goals with concern of others having 0 weight.
Regardless of joy, or of intent, Jeffrey Dahmer did something I would term "evil". As did Pol Pot...
With Bush, the result being what it is, if we leave before attempting to set up real protection for the people in Iraq (*international peacekeeping support, beg for it fool), the result will certainly not be "good".
*internal thought message
IHateGovernment
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So would I. In an election I think you should base your decisions on results. This is natural because when you elect an official you are not judging a person but rather trying to get the kind of society you wish. Their intentions don't matter if produces the kind of society you want.
However in judging a defendant I would most definitely consider intent. We must remember that trials are for determining guilt or innocence. If we render them guilty we know that such a verdict mandates a corrective action to be taken against them so that it is hopefully not repeated. However it would be unwise to punish a person for producing a negative result by pursuing what would be considered a moral action. This is not something that needs to be corrected and further consequences may not be detrimental anyway.
However in judging a defendant I would most definitely consider intent. We must remember that trials are for determining guilt or innocence. If we render them guilty we know that such a verdict mandates a corrective action to be taken against them so that it is hopefully not repeated. However it would be unwise to punish a person for producing a negative result by pursuing what would be considered a moral action. This is not something that needs to be corrected and further consequences may not be detrimental anyway.
IHateGovernment
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What consitutes evil in your opinion Damo?
I'll have to get back with you, I don't have time for this at the moment. It is far too detailed to go into at this time.
IHateGovernment
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I'm sure. Because I'm not a fan of subjective definition I have decided upon objective criteria for the term evil.
I would say that evil is placing value on making an immoral or unethical choice regardless of results and seeing immorality as being good in its own right.
I don't know of anyone who has exhibited such behavior although I am sure it is possible. Evil can be seen as a foil for the behavior of the righteous. It is much more common that people choose an action because they see value in choosing a moral or ethical choice.
The evil person does the exact opposite. They see value in immorality.
However the battle between good and bad is not reeally of the righteous vs the evil. More often that not those who are labeled as evil are not in direct opposition to those who value morality but rather that they simply value some things higher than morality such as benefit to the self or even others that have achieved a certain level of importance.
I would say that evil is placing value on making an immoral or unethical choice regardless of results and seeing immorality as being good in its own right.
I don't know of anyone who has exhibited such behavior although I am sure it is possible. Evil can be seen as a foil for the behavior of the righteous. It is much more common that people choose an action because they see value in choosing a moral or ethical choice.
The evil person does the exact opposite. They see value in immorality.
However the battle between good and bad is not reeally of the righteous vs the evil. More often that not those who are labeled as evil are not in direct opposition to those who value morality but rather that they simply value some things higher than morality such as benefit to the self or even others that have achieved a certain level of importance.