If God were real, you wouldn’t need a book

Feel free to try to convince CERN,
Feel free to show the world these imaginary quarks. We're all waiting.

FermiLab, Brookhaven, and Stanford
Real people don't care about the organizations you listed in place of applying any critical reasoning.

that all the precise properties of quarks they have measured
No quarks have been observed.
No quarks have been measured.
No quarks have been discovered.
No list of institutions changes anything.
 
Yeah...gods tend to do that sort of thing.

Are you saying that gods cannot do that...or are you saying that there are no gods.

I'm interesting in these kinds of blind guesses.
If a god wanted to allow an adult male to walk on top of water, how would that work? Would the god change the atomic structure of the water to make it a solid?
 
We can agree here, Zen. The evidence FOR a god or gods...is way insufficient, although I would prefer using the word ambiguous."

The evidence that there are no gods is also insufficient (or ambiguous).

Logically, neither assertion should be made.
Ambiguous meaning it's only evidence if you already believe in a god.
 
If a god wanted to allow an adult male to walk on top of water, how would that work? Would the god change the atomic structure of the water to make it a solid?
I have no idea of how a god might do that.

Why do you have such trouble answering appropriate questions...rather than diverting?

Are you saying that gods cannot do that...or are you saying that there are no gods.

I'm truly, honestly am interesting in these kinds of blind guesses.
 
Ambiguous meaning it's only evidence if you already believe in a god.
No it doesn't.

IF there is a god...everything that exists is evidence of that god. But since we do not know if there is a god or not...it is ambiguous. And IF there is a god...it all IS evidence of the god whether anyone "believes" the god exists or not...or as you put it, "believes in" the god.
 
I have no idea of how a god might do that.

Why do you have such trouble answering appropriate questions...rather than diverting?

Are you saying that gods cannot do that...or are you saying that there are no gods.

I'm truly, honestly am interesting in these kinds of blind guesses.
The question of how is a question that should be asked. You can't just assume God's exist and they can do such things without asking how.

If you can't come up with a reasonable way to describe how all of these things can be done, that is evidence against the existence of gods.
 
The question of how is a question that should be asked. You can't just assume God's exist and they can do such things without asking how.

If there is an entity that can do ANYTHING...that would include allowing Jesus to walk on water...or at least, seem to. And if it wanted to do so in a way that puny humans cannot imagine...it can do so. It most assuredly can do so in a way that I cannot imagine.

So it CAN do it any way it wants...and it can do so in a way that I, personally, cannot imagine or explain.
If you can't come up with a reasonable way to describe how all of these things can be done, that is evidence against the existence of gods.
I have rewritten this next sentence several times attempting to say, forcefully, what I am want to transmit, but it always comes out in a near variation of: You are so full of shit, you must occasionally be fearful of exploding.

The fact that I cannot come up with a reasonable way to describe anything...is not evidence against its existence. It is only evidence, perhaps, of the limitations of what I can do.

Logic, Zen, is your friend...or at least should be.
 
I didn't say God/Jesus violated what we know about science. I said claims made about them violate what we know about science.
Onlookers didn't see the sandbar. Pretty simple. Why make a big deal about what primitive people thought they saw 2000 years ago?

Have you ever heard of David Copperfield? Human perceptions can be flawed. Look at all the political extremists on JPP for more examples.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVoVY5qJkr0
 
Because their superstitious beliefs and writings are impacting the country and world today.
Their? You mean the Christians you clearly hate so much but not the Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, etc? Weird.

World_religions_pie_chart.png
 
Their? You mean the Christians you clearly hate so much but not the Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, etc? Weird.
Because their superstitious beliefs and writings are impacting the country and world today.
Even the esteemed atheist New Testament scholar Bart Ehrman is not willing to say Christianity has on balance been a great evil with no redeeming qualities.

You can talk about crusades and witch burning until the cows come home, but there is another side to the balance ledger the impartial person has to weigh.

Professor Bart Ehrman (Atheist) on What the West Gained from Christianity:

The Christianization of Europe is the most transformative event of Western Civilization, and arguably the most transformative event of human history. If Christianity had not taken over the Roman world, none of the historical movements that have shaped our world would have happened: What we know of the Middle Ages, the Renaissance, the Reformation, and arguably the Enlightenment would have been unthinkable. In one way or another, Christianity was the dominant force in all of them, and all of them shaped who we are today.

Culture

The history of western philosophy, art, music, literature as we know it would not have occurred.
There never would have been a Descartes or Kant.
There never would have been a Michelangelo, Giotto, or Ruebens.
There never would have been a Mozart, Handel, or Bach. There never would have been a Chaucer, Shakespeare, Dostoyevsky.

Ethics and Social Justice

There was an important and sustained discussion of ethics in the ancient Roman world. But it was simply understood at every level that the strong would and should assert dominance over the weaker.

The word 'service' is one way to describe the basic ideology celebrated by the early Christians. Not all Christians practiced this ideology, but it was the one that was taught, preached, and urged.

The Christians insisted that love of the other was more important than dominance, that it was more important to serve than to be served. It is important to note that the Christian views came out of Judaism.

Universities, Hospitals, Orphanages, Public Charities

With the Christianization of the West, there emerged hospitals, orphanages, public funding of welfare and private charities.

These things did not exist in the pagan world. They came into being because of the Christian church.

Most would consider this development a real plus, hugely beneficial to the human race at large and to most of us individually.


www.justplainpolitics.com/threads/bart-ehrman-on-gains-and-losses-to-western-civilization-due-to-christianity.234239/#post-6522985
 
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I am using logic and reason.

If you were using logic and reason...you would simply be saying, "I do not know if there are any gods or not...and if there is a god, it could certainly allow people to walk on water. But, for certain, you are not using logic and reason on this issue.

You are turning religion into a scene from Harry Potter/Stranger Things and continuing to confuse probable and possible.
I am not turning religion into anything. Religionists and atheists are both making blind guesses about whether any gods exist or not. One of them seems to be correct. You are "in love" with your blind guess...just as the religionists are "in love" with theirs. I'm just wondering which blind guess is correct.

I am not confusing probability and possibility at all. You seem to be offering that absurdity as a mask for your inability to be logical.
 
No quarks have been observed!
No quarks have been measured!
We know the masses, electrical charges, and quantum spins of the six different quarks with a high degree of precision.
No quarks have been discovered!
They have been discovered and reported by the most respected and esteemed high energy particle physics laboratories on the planet.
No list of institutions changes anything!
It hilarious because it shows that obscure anonymous poster IBDumbass claims quarks haven't been discovered,

While the prestigious high energy physics laboratories CERN, FermiLab, the Stanford Linear Accelerator, Brookhaven all say quarks have been discovered.
 
I don't KNOW, with absolute certainty, if there are gods or not, but you're implying that it 50/50 odds and I don't agree.
Okay...you do not know.

But you are blindly guessing about the probability of the existence of gods as favoring "NO THEY DO NOT."

Thank you for that blind guess. It is a very interesting blind guess. The religionists blindly guess that the probability favors "YES AT LEAST ONE GOD EXISTS."

I wonder which is correct???
 
Even the esteemed atheist New Testament scholar Bart Ehrman is not willing to say Christianity has on balance been a great evil with no redeeming qualities.

You can talk about crusades and witch burning until the cows come home, but there is another side to the balance ledger the impartial person has to weigh.

Professor Bart Ehrman (Atheist) on What the West Gained from Christianity:

The Christianization of Europe is the most transformative event of Western Civilization, and arguably the most transformative event of human history. If Christianity had not taken over the Roman world, none of the historical movements that have shaped our world would have happened: What we know of the Middle Ages, the Renaissance, the Reformation, and arguably the Enlightenment would have been unthinkable. In one way or another, Christianity was the dominant force in all of them, and all of them shaped who we are today.

Culture

The history of western philosophy, art, music, literature as we know it would not have occurred.
There never would have been a Descartes or Kant.
There never would have been a Michelangelo, Giotto, or Ruebens.
There never would have been a Mozart, Handel, or Bach. There never would have been a Chaucer, Shakespeare, Dostoyevsky.

Ethics and Social Justice

There was an important and sustained discussion of ethics in the ancient Roman world. But it was simply understood at every level that the strong would and should assert dominance over the weaker.

The word 'service' is one way to describe the basic ideology celebrated by the early Christians. Not all Christians practiced this ideology, but it was the one that was taught, preached, and urged.

The Christians insisted that love of the other was more important than dominance, that it was more important to serve than to be served. It is important to note that the Christian views came out of Judaism.

Universities, Hospitals, Orphanages, Public Charities

With the Christianization of the West, there emerged hospitals, orphanages, public funding of welfare and private charities.

These things did not exist in the pagan world. They came into being because of the Christian church.

Most would consider this development a real plus, hugely beneficial to the human race at large and to most of us individually.


www.justplainpolitics.com/threads/bart-ehrman-on-gains-and-losses-to-western-civilization-due-to-christianity.234239/#post-6522985
Well, Bart is forgetting the fact that we lost a decade of embryonic stem cell research because stem cells might have souls. Several states have made it nearly impossible, if not impossible, to get an abortion and we have a concerning percentage of the far right that gives the current president a pass on all the embarrassing, childish and generally ridiculous things he says and does, because they believe he was literally put into the presidency by God himself.
 
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