If God were real, you wouldn’t need a book

[Diesel]

I do not "believe in" any gods...but why do you suppose such a belief "irrational?

It's certainly possible that a god or gods might exist, but I think a belief in them is irrational because in the entire history of humanity, there has never been any evidence that any of them do exist. I suppose it's sort of like early theories about molecular structure. We couldn't see them until we could. Maybe the same is true of god. In the meantime, the entire concept of "god" is illogical to its core.

 

[Diesel]

I dare you to explain to me why you consider it to be irrational?

I already did. So you may take a spoonful of your own medicine and explain the harder part. Why is a belief in god rational? I dare you.

 

[Diesel]

Jesus fucking christ. Christian zealots are so touchy. Why can't it be enough for you all to have your religion, live in your faith, and be the best you can be? This whole missionary aspect when you insist on bitching at non-believers is so tiresome. I don't care what you believe. You shouldn't care what I believe. When I think you're irrational and illogical for believing in imaginary spirits, move along. You're not going to change my mind about what boils down to low grade insanity.

 

[Cypress]

Christianity isn't a "historical event".

The intellectual and theological foundation of Christianity is a historical claim about the life, death, and resurrection of the historical first century Palestinian Jew, Jesus of Nazareth.

Without that historical claim, there simply is no Christianity. It wouldn't exist.

But that doesn't mean there would be no religion. People will always continue to have an affinity for the spiritual, the providential, the transcendental.

 

[Freddy Figbottom]

A short little Youtube from a former evangelical pastor. Did the fire and brimstone shit for decades until he finally came to his senses. For those of you who are in denial or wish to remain willfully ignorant, he basically says this:

“Christians go in with their god as an assumption rather than a conclusion. When in fact, after close examination, the virgin birth falls apart, the resurrection falls apart, the basis of morality falls apart, the promise of afterlife fizzles into fear based marketing.”

“The gods of Islam, of Judaism, of Christianity only exist in scripture. If they actually existed, we wouldn’t need the books to claim they did. Once the book fails, the god goes with it.”

View: https://youtube.com/shorts/gI_OCjTkQG4?si=cyukCFBlj2u2kI4k

living morally and cooperating is obviously the best way to live.

cooperating instead wasting resources fighting is just obvious.

this common sense perception doesn't require a book.

 

[Freddy Figbottom]

The intellectual and theological foundation of Christianity is a historical claim about the life, death, and resurrection of the historical first century Palestinian Jew, Jesus of Nazareth.

Without that historical claim, there simply is no Christianity. It wouldn't exist.

But that doesn't mean there would be no religion. People will always continue to have an affinity for the spiritual, the providential, the transcendental.

no.

the intellectual foundation is the golden rule, the most important teaching of Jesus, as he said himself.

 

[ZenMode]

The intellectual and theological foundation of Christianity is a historical claim about the life, death, and resurrection of the historical first century Palestinian Jew, Jesus of Nazareth.

Without that historical claim, there simply is no Christianity. It wouldn't exist.

But that doesn't mean there would be no religion. People will always continue to have an affinity for the spiritual, the providential, the transcendental.

I'm not saying to remove the historical event from existence. Jesus life, to whatever degree it is accurately reflected in the Bible, still happened in my scenario. However, despite the fact that, according to Christians, Jesus and God still exist in a very literal manner and are directly active in the lives of Christians and directly influence worldly events on a daily basis. Jesus/God influence outcomes, cause things to happen or prevent things from happening.

Yet, despite those claims, without the Bible and memories of believers, there is no reason to believe that a belief in christianity would ever recreate itself.

 

[Cypress]

no.

the intellectual foundation is the golden rule,

You can't just say 'be nice' to other people. That's just an opinion, personal preference, or it's rooted in self-interest, aka the hope that they will be nice to you in return.

The only way the golden rule is really, objectively, an absolute good is if we are appealing to a standard outside of human opinion or social convention.

 

[Freddy Figbottom]

You can't just say 'be nice' to other people. That's just an opinion, personal preference, or it's rooted in self-interest, aka the hope that they will be nice to you in return.

The only way the golden rule is really, objectively, an absolute good is if we are appealing to a standard outside of human opinion or social convention.

its a call for reciprocity, and Jesus said it replaced the whole of the law.

people know what reciprocity is.

you're just not a Christian.

you abuse Christianity as a wedge for you schismatic war mongers worldview.

 

[Cypress]

Jesus fucking christ. Christian zealots are so touchy. Why can't it be enough for you all to have your religion, live in your faith, and be the best you can be?

The only one triggered her is you. You have been foul-mouthed and intentionally insulting throughout this thread.

Most of the people starting threads about religion in this subforum are atheists. This thread was started by an atheist. If atheists start threads about religion is no one supposed to comment? Or just agree with what they said?

My thread contributions recently to this religion subforum have been about atheist books, or about corruption and malfeasance committed by churches and Bible thumpers.

 

[gmark77]

The intellectual and theological foundation of Christianity is a historical claim about the life, death, and resurrection of the historical first century Palestinian Jew, Jesus of Nazareth.

Without that historical claim, there simply is no Christianity. It wouldn't exist.

But that doesn't mean there would be no religion. People will always continue to have an affinity for the spiritual, the providential, the transcendental.

You are getting dangerously close to understanding the larger point: yes religion would exist but Christianity wouldn't. That means Christianity has no more "reality" to it than belief in Zeus.

Which is a huge indicator that the "religious instinct" you think has some meaning is nothing more than a flaw in our brain's function. We assign placeholder variable for those things we can't understand.

That's one thing, but the real problem lies in building out a full mythos based on our ignorance and then forcing others to believe the same made up stuff.

 

[Freddy Figbottom]

You are getting dangerously close to understanding the larger point: yes religion would exist but Christianity wouldn't. That means Christianity has no more "reality" to it than belief in Zeus.

Which is a huge indicator that the "religious instinct" you think has some meaning is nothing more than a flaw in our brain's function. We assign placeholder variable for those things we can't understand.

That's one thing, but the real problem lies in building out a full mythos based on our ignorance and then forcing others to believe the same made up stuff.

but morality is obviously beneficial.

 

[Freddy Figbottom]

the Nicene creed is dumb, it makes people swear to miracles right off the bat, forcing them to turn off their rationality from the get-go,



morality is a set of behaviors, and attitudes that facilitate mutually beneficial and voluntary relationships and cooperative endeavors.

 

[gmark77]

but morality is obviously beneficial.

And morality is a human-creation. It is the rules by which any given social animal structures its interactions and sets metes and bounds of behavior in relation to each other.

We have a morality which doesn't apply to animals (ergo is not universal in any real sense) as no one would convict a fully-fed housecat of murder of a songbird.

Morality is just the rules we set up to get along with each other and make a safer more stable social network which imparts a significant survival advantage to a species like us.

 

[Freddy Figbottom]

And morality is a human-creation. It is the rules by which any given social animal structures its interactions and sets metes and bounds of behavior in relation to each other.

We have a morality which doesn't apply to animals (ergo is not universal in any real sense) as no one would convict a fully-fed housecat of murder of a songbird.

Morality is just the rules we set up to get along with each other and make a safer more stable social network which imparts a significant survival advantage to a species like us.

I disagree.

animals also cooperate, to their benefit as individuals.

 

[Freddy Figbottom]

And morality is a human-creation. It is the rules by which any given social animal structures its interactions and sets metes and bounds of behavior in relation to each other.

We have a morality which doesn't apply to animals (ergo is not universal in any real sense) as no one would convict a fully-fed housecat of murder of a songbird.

Morality is just the rules we set up to get along with each other and make a safer more stable social network which imparts a significant survival advantage to a species like us.

and animals species too.

you being longwinded doesn't make me wrong in any fashion

 

[Freddy Figbottom]

cue cypress:

"where's the blood, where's the sacrifice?"

Jesus was the final sacrifice, that shit is over. <-- also Christianity.

 

[goat]

Jesus fucking christ. Christian zealots are so touchy. Why can't it be enough for you all to have your religion, live in your faith, and be the best you can be? This whole missionary aspect when you insist on bitching at non-believers is so tiresome. I don't care what you believe. You shouldn't care what I believe. When I think you're irrational and illogical for believing in imaginary spirits, move along. You're not going to change my mind about what boils down to low grade insanity.

The same is true with LGBTQ. Stop forcing your lifestyle on others.

 

[gmark77]

I disagree.

animals also cooperate, to their benefit as individuals.

Yes, animals DO cooperate. Social animals create their own special modes of interaction. What is proper and improper behavior. But note how morality is not common BETWEEN us and other animals.

Short of the few weird occasions where the French tried rats or cats in the past, we don't normally attribute morality to other animals when, in fact, they have their own "morality". It's just not ours.

Morality is made up by each social animal.

 

[Freddy Figbottom]

Yes, animals DO cooperate. Social animals create their own special modes of interaction. What is proper and improper behavior. But note how morality is not common BETWEEN us and other animals.

it's basically common.

Short of the few weird occasions where the French tried rats or cats in the past, we don't normally attribute morality to other animals when, in fact, they have their own "morality". It's just not ours.

Morality is made up by each social animal.

they're all strikingly similar.

you're bad at sophistry, which is actually a good thing.