If God were real, you wouldn’t need a book

[domer76]

The claim you and your pastor seemed to be making is that only a book makes one aware of a god. That's obviously false.

Science doesn't prove anything about religion. There are Nobel Prize winners in physics who practice Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism.

Paul didn't have to know. It's self evident. If you and your pastor read Romans, you'd see that Paul is saying even the pagans are aware of a divine providential order and an objective moral law. It didn't require proof. It's self evident in human nature.

Nope, you fucked up my words and his words again.

So, now we go from “Romans said” to self evident. LOL

No, pal. The existence of a deity is not self evident. Nor moral law. We covered that moral law before and you failed then.

Another swing and a miss.

 

[gmark77]

There you go again, putting words in my mouth.

Haven't you figured out yet? That's how Cypress "debates". He doesn't understand his own position (it's mostly just Google AI and quote mining) so he has to argue against things you never said.

He does it all the fucking time. It's really annoying. But it stands to reason given who Cy is.

 

[gmark77]

They wouldn't be atheists if they confessed to that.

Jesus you keep showing everyone how little you understand about basic logic.

Google AI is really letting you down today, Cy! Might want to shift over to Wikipedia for a change.

 

[domer76]

Telling "christians" to RTFM makes sense since most of them have barely bothered to open it.

Reading it is very much different than studying it and understanding it.

When one places the Bible under the microscope, it fails miserably. Now, how valid is the religion that relies upon it?

 

[gmark77]

Another swing and a miss.

Don't blame Cy. Blame Google AI. He's having a tough go of it today. That's how he constructs his arguments as he showed us earlier.

Note how Cy never quotes the Bible per se. Interesting no? Cy doesn't seem to actually know much about what the Bible itself says. That's why he needs Google AI.

 

[domer76]

Haven't you figured out yet? That's how Cypress "debates". He doesn't understand his own position (it's mostly just Google AI and quote mining) so he has to argue against things you never said.

He does it all the fucking time. It's really annoying. But it stands to reason given who Cy is.

All over the place, for sure. I try to be clear and concise, but apparently it’s in vain.

I have cooking and football today, along with a run of a few miles. No time for much more bullshit.

 

[Cypress]

I’ll get the pastor’s name for you and we’ll see his background.

In his biography, there is no indication he graduated college, let alone a reputable divinity school. Unless he just doesn't want to mention it.

Anyone can call themselves a pastor. I think there are places that, for a fee, will print you a pastor licence

Darante' LaMar Martin | Speaking Fee | Booking Agent

Biography and booking information for Darante' LaMar Martin, Leadership & Growth Speaker; CEO of DLDD World Group & Author of "Significant" & "Christ Held Up". Contact All American Speakers Bureau to book the best keynote speaker for your next live or virtual event.

www.allamericanspeakers.com

 

[Cypress]

Nope, you fucked up my words and his words again.

It's crystal clear he is saying

“The gods of Islam, of Judaism, of Christianity only exist in scripture. If they actually existed, we wouldn’t need the books to claim they did. Once the book fails, the god goes with it.”

So, now we go from “Romans said” to self evident. LOL

"LOL"...seriously? Did you even think that through?
'Self evident' and 'said' are not mutually exclusive. The Declaration of Independence says the right to liberty is self-evident.

No, pal. The existence of a deity is not self evident. Nor moral law. We covered that moral law before and you failed then.

Explain why throughout history, long before the New Testament, humans have had an innate drive to perceive divine natural order and a moral law.

Another swing and a miss.

I don't think you have said anything that merits you spiking the football and patting yourself on the back.

 

[gmark77]

Explain why throughout history, long before the New Testament, humans have had an innate drive to perceive divine natural order and a moral law.

Wow. So stupid he thinks an argumentum ad populum is valid. WOW! LOLOLOLOL.

People throughout the millennia thought God caused storms. So I guess it's obvious that God causes storms in your epistemology.

Google AI really let you down today, Cy!

 

[Cypress]

God caused storms!

You seem to be posting on the wrong thread.

The question raised in the OP is whether people would have knowledge of gods without scripture.

The question is not about the reasonableness of believing god threw a lightning bolt.

 

[gmark77]

You seem to be posting on the wrong thread.

The question raised in the OP is whether people would have knowledge of gods without scripture.

The question is not about the reasonableness of believing god threw a lightning bolt.

You made an argumentum ad populum (go ahead and ask Google AI to explain it to you). I merely pointed out the logical conclusion based on your "reasoning".

I'm sorry you are simply too dim to understand the point.

You really get dumber by the day, Cy. Are you currently actively eating lead paint chips?

 

[domer76]

In his biography, there is no indication he graduated college, let alone a reputable divinity school. Unless he just doesn't want to mention it.

Anyone can call themselves a pastor. I think there are places that, for a fee, will print you a pastor licence

Darante' LaMar Martin | Speaking Fee | Booking Agent

Biography and booking information for Darante' LaMar Martin, Leadership & Growth Speaker; CEO of DLDD World Group & Author of "Significant" & "Christ Held Up". Contact All American Speakers Bureau to book the best keynote speaker for your next live or virtual event.

www.allamericanspeakers.com

He has a degree in the social sciences from Troy. I can’t tell where he pastored, but I see he was Executive Director of Calhoun Baptist Association in 2015.

 

[Diesel]

No, the point made in Romans is that general revelation is available to everyone independent of scripture.

The fact that humans, long before the New Testament, almost universally perceived a providential origin in the design in nature, and recognized a moral conscience that goes beyond survival of the fittest is proof of this.

Humans perceived a providential origin in the design of nature or they wanted to believe in one? What evidence is there of a god?

 

[T. A. Gardner]

That can’t happen. It took thousands of people a couple thousand years to concoct the bullshit we see today.

Even if they were made aware of the concept of the resurrection, Christianity’s keystone, a reasonable mind would reject it outright.

That's a lot better than on the Left where it takes one insane monster to write a book in a matter of a year or two and then get millions to follow their insane scheme to create a utopia where millions die, millions more are forced into destitute poverty and privation, and everyone is oppressed into virtual slavery by a dictatorship of virtue.

 

[Diesel]

The claim you and your pastor seemed to be making is that only a book makes one aware of a god. That's obviously false.

Science doesn't prove anything about religion. There are Nobel Prize winners in physics who practice Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism.

Paul didn't have to know. It's self evident. If you and your pastor read Romans, you'd see that Paul is saying even the pagans are aware of a divine providential order and an objective moral law. It didn't require proof. It's self evident in human nature.

Why can't everyone perceive this "self evidence"?

 

[Diesel]

It's crystal clear he is saying

“The gods of Islam, of Judaism, of Christianity only exist in scripture. If they actually existed, we wouldn’t need the books to claim they did. Once the book fails, the god goes with it.”

"LOL"...seriously? Did you even think that through?
'Self evident' and 'said' are not mutually exclusive. The Declaration of Independence says the right to liberty is self-evident.

Explain why throughout history, long before the New Testament, humans have had an innate drive to perceive divine natural order and a moral law.

I don't think you have said anything that merits you spiking the football and patting yourself on the back.

Humans have a need to solve problems and explain everything. Throughout most of history, people have put whatever is unexplainable at the time into the bucket of "god". As technology progresses, we continue to find scientific explanations for most phenomena in life. "Divine natural order" can be explained by understanding the formation of the universe, the orbits of planets, chemistry, physics, and biology. Moral law does not require religion. In fact, I have always found it bizarre that so many religious people credit their goodness to their religion when goodness can (and should) exist in the absence of religion. Even more, so many religious people are as far from "good" as people can be, so supposed divinity or faith certainly does not enforce "moral law".

 

[Cypress]

Why can't everyone perceive this "self evidence"?​

I think I said it was almost universal. You know, like greater than 90 percent of humans.

Atheists have never been more than a few percent of the global population. And their share of the global population is expected to decline because atheists tend to be western white people with low fertility rates.

"Atheists, agnostics and other people who do not affiliate with any religion – though increasing in countries such as the United States and France – will make up a declining share of the world’s total population (by 2050)." - Pew Polls, Future of World Religions, 2010 to 2050​

Most people for the last 50k years at least seem to believe in some kind of providential design and in objective moral absolutes. That's the nature of General Revelation articulated in Epistle to the Romans.

 

[Diesel]

I think I said it was almost universal. You know, like greater than 90 percent of humans.

Atheists have never been more than a few percent of the global population. And their share of the global population is expected to decline because atheists tend to be western white people with low fertility rates.

"Atheists, agnostics and other people who do not affiliate with any religion – though increasing in countries such as the United States and France – will make up a declining share of the world’s total population (by 2050)." - Pew Polls, Future of World Religions, 2010 to 2050​

Most people seem to believe in some kind of providential design and in objective moral absolutes. That's the point made in Epistle to the Romans.

You didn't answer my question. Why can't everyone perceive the "self evidence"?

 

[gmark77]

I think I said it was almost universal. You know, like greater than 90 percent of humans.

Atheists have never been more than a few percent of the global population. And their share of the global population is expected to decline because atheists tend to be western white people with low fertility rates.

"Atheists, agnostics and other people who do not affiliate with any religion – though increasing in countries such as the United States and France – will make up a declining share of the world’s total population (by 2050)." - Pew Polls, Future of World Religions, 2010 to 2050​

Most people for the last 50k years at least seem to believe in some kind of providential design and in objective moral absolutes. That's the nature of General Revelation articulated in Epistle to the Romans.

Something that a lot of people like you fail to understand is that the human mind is super capable of fooling itself.

It does it literally all the time. It paints over the "blind spot" in our eyes. It formulates justification and intent sometimes from whole cloth.

If you don't understand the limitations of the machine you are relying on you will no doubt misinterpret a lot of stuff.

 

[gmark77]

"Atheists, agnostics and other people who do not affiliate with any religion – though increasing in countries such as the United States and France – will make up a declining share of the world’s total population (by 2050)." - Pew Polls, Future of World Religions, 2010 to 2050​

Think about it for a minute. There are many, many gods currently in circulation and formerly so in human history. Everyone is atheistic about 99.999999999% of all gods.

Everyone is an atheist to a greater or lesser extent.

The atheists are at least honest enough to question their own gods.