If God were real, you wouldn’t need a book

[Margot]

You don't even know what is wrong with what you just wrote.

Catholics assert that Mary's pregnancy with Jesus was miraculous, directly from God, etc. Because Mary was chosen by God for this role, Catholics assert that Mary is blessed and favored, that Mary has a special place in heaven, and that she should be treated with solemn respect.

There is no "perpetual virginity" in that narrative.

Catholics pretend Jesus's brothers and sisters are cousins,

 

[Cypress]

I'm doing fine.

I'm not equating. I'm saying that the Bible makes claims that science shows to be incorrect.

There are no scientific claims in the Bible.

- The earth is not enclosed in a plexiglass enclosure, there's no windows/gates that open to let in rain from the sky rivers

There is nothing in the Bible about plexiglass enclosures.
The idea that the universe was enclosed by crystalline celestial spheres came from the ancient Greeks.

- The Earth isn't 6,000 years old.

The Bible says nothing about the age of the Earth.
The first person to calculate a semi-plausible age of the Earth at a scale of millions of years was Lord Kelvin. Kelvin was devout Christian who believed science and religion were totally compatible.

- The human body can't be brought back to life after being without oxygen/blood for 3 days

True. But then you have to explain if and why the disciples and people who knew them decided to lie about it, or if they were having mass hallucinations.

- People don't build cruise ships by hand, collect all of the world's mammals and sale around for months together.

Noah's ark is a story. People in the Bronze Age were telling stories and parables to convey truths. They were not doing science nor writing analytical biography.

I could list many more.

You haven't listed any science from the Bible with the possible exception of the resurrection.

 

[Into the Night]

There are no scientific claims in the Bible.

No one said there were.

There is nothing in the Bible about plexiglass enclosures.

This part is correct.

The idea that the universe was enclosed by crystalline celestial spheres came from the ancient Greeks.

Arabs.

The Bible says nothing about the age of the Earth.

Correct.

The first person to calculate a semi-plausible age of the Earth at a scale of millions of years was Lord Kelvin. Kelvin was devout Christian who believed science and religion were totally compatible.

It is not possible to calculate the age of the Earth.

True. But then you have to explain if and why the disciples and people who knew them decided to lie about it, or if they were having mass hallucinations.

What 'mass hallucination'??

Noah's ark is a story.

It is also an event.

People in the Bronze Age were telling stories and parables to convey truths. They were not doing science nor writing analytical biography.

The story of Noah's ark is not a parable. It is about an event of the Great Flood.

You haven't listed any science from the Bible with the possible exception of the resurrection.

Go learn what 'science' is.
Science is not a religion.

 

[gfm7175]

I'm saying that the Bible makes claims that science shows to be incorrect.

Which claims?

The only stupid things are the the claims the Bible makes that we now know to be wrong.

Oh nice. I'm looking forward to seeing which claims these are.

- The earth is not enclosed in a plexiglass enclosure, there's no windows/gates that open to let in rain from the sky rivers

The Bible does not claim this. Summarily dismissed.

- The Earth isn't 6,000 years old.

The Bible does not claim this either. Summarily dismissed.

- The human body can't be brought back to life after being without oxygen/blood for 3 days

The Bible DOES claim this (and this is considered to be a "miracle"). It claims that this sort of thing has happened both temporarily (e.g. Lazarus, Jairus's daughter), in which the person was resurrected only to die again, and permanently (e.g. Jesus, future resurrection/rapture of all believers), in which Jesus was (and all believers in Christ one day will be) resurrected into an immortal/glorified body (never to die again).

- People don't build cruise ships by hand, collect all of the world's mammals and sale around for months together.

I think you mean 'sail' instead of 'sale'? People DO build boats by hand. Noah DIDN'T collect all of the mammals himself (instead, God directed the mammals to go onto the ark ... much easier that way). Boats can float on water for a very long time.

I could list many more.

You're gonna need more because you haven't come up with one single example that "we" "know to be wrong" "because of science".

I know what science is.

No you don't. You don't know what religion is either.

 

[gfm7175]

Yes, this continues to be God of the Gaps.

Science can't explain where everything came from, it seems really complicated, yet organized and we can't explain why, so it must be a deity.

There is no "it must be a deity" present. There is only "evidence for a deity" present. Evidence is not a proof.

People don't generally invoke science for philosophical questions like right/wrong, moral/immoral. There also isn't a need for a deity to discuss philosophical questions.

People don't generally invoke science for religious questions.

 

[gfm7175]

True. But then you have to explain if and why the disciples and people who knew them decided to lie about it, or if they were having mass hallucinations.

... one would also have to explain why so many people were all willing to suffer death for "a lie".

 

[ZenMode]

Science is not a proof. If you want to deny chemistry as part of your word games, it won't work.

(Word games ignored)

Science is not a proof. Circular argument fallacy (fundamentalism).

(Word games ignored)

No one said there was (except you).

And the Bible.

The age of Earth is unknown.

Exact age? No. Do we know it's not 6000 years old? Yes.

Irrelevance fallacy. YARP

Sure, Jan.

 

[ZenMode]

Buzzword fallacy. Repetition fallacy.

Science has no theory about any past unobserved event. There is no 'gap'. Buzzword fallacy. Science is not religion.

Science is not religion.

Philosophy is not a religion.

Random words. No apparent coherency.

You were never ON track.

No theory of science conflicts with anything in the Bible, Automaton.
Science isn't 'advancements'.


Science is not religion. You are still locked in this paradox. Repetition fallacy.

No argument presented.

Just meaningless babble.

Moving on....

 

[ZenMode]

Lie.

What is a 'Sky Wizard'? The only one claiming a 'sky wizard' is YOU.

Sky Wizard = deity = god

Science is not a proof. Circular argument fallacy (fundamentalism).

I didn't say science "was" a proof.

Inversion fallacy.

Inversion inversion fallacy.

The Bible does not describe a plexiglass dome or a dome of any kind.

Obviously not plexiglass, but some kind of solid structure that has windows/gates that open to let rain in.

 

[Cypress]

Catholics assert that Mary's pregnancy with Jesus was miraculous, directly from God, etc.

There is no "perpetual virginity" in that narrative!

You are highly confused.

Perpetual virginity in Catholic doctrine means Mary never had biological children, even after Jesus was born. Catholics attempt to claim Jesus' brothers and sisters mentioned in the gospels really weren't siblings, but they were just cousins.

Protestants take a plain-reading approach of the written word in the gospel: Mary had biological children after Jesus was born, and they were siblings to Jesus.

 

[ZenMode]

Nope. You are tipping your king.

I'm not. You wish I was, but I'm not.

You are. You shift the semantics of the word "science" between science and religion, as convenient.

Nope. Science is science. Bible is Bible.

... and your king is tipped.

Deflection.

KJV makes no mention of plexiglass. You are babbling.

It references a firmament, which is a solid structure. In the case of the Bible, that solid structure has windows/gates that open to let rain fall from the sky rivers.

Nowhere in the Bible is any age of the earth specified.

It's implied and it's wrong.

... without a religious miracle. Correct. Already stipulated. You were going to prove that no religious miracles have ever occurred.

Thanks for confirming that religion runs contrary to science. I already knew that.

Yeah, that only happened once, and immediately fell from popularity. Hence, we just don't do that anymore. It was a good thought, though. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Ridiculous claims made once are still ridiculous claims, especially when they come from a book that is labeled as the "word of God".

You can't list "more" until you actually list at least one valid one.

Why? You'll just keep denying them or claim they "happened once" as though that makes them any less ridiculous.

Obviously not. Not at all.

Obviously.

 

[ZenMode]

Lie.

Lie.

Science shows no such thing. You still have no idea what science is. Circular argument fallacy (fundamentalism).

Repetition fallacy.

Illiteracy: Plurality used for singular.
Logic errors: Synthesis. Circular argument fallacy (fundamentalism).

The Bible never describes any such thing. Synthesis.

The age of the Earth is unknown. The Bible doesn't describe it either. Omniscience fallacy.

Omniscience fallacy.

No need. No worldwide flooding anymore.
I assume you are trying to discuss Noah and the Ark.

No one said this was the only ark, or that others in the world escape the Flood in a different way.

If you look at the cultures in the world, they generally have a Great Flood story and how their tribe survived it.

You are only listing your own fiction.

Lie.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

"Science shows no such thing. You still have no idea what science is. Circular argument fallacy (fundamentalism)."

Stopped reading here. Done with dumb word games.

 

[ZenMode]

There are no scientific claims in the Bible.

Right, there are claims that run squarely against science.

There is nothing in the Bible about plexiglass enclosures.
The idea that the universe was enclosed by crystalline celestial spheres came from the ancient Greeks.

It's called a firmament in the Bible. The writers of the Bible believed that the earth was enclosed with some solid structure that occasionally opened to let rain fall.

The Bible says nothing about the age of the Earth.

Those who interpret the Bible has repeatedly estimated it to be around 6000 years old based on genealogies.

The first person to calculate a semi-plausible age of the Earth at a scale of millions of years was Lord Kelvin. Kelvin was devout Christian who believed science and religion were totally compatible.

Millions of years is still wrong.

True. But then you have to explain if and why the disciples and people who knew them decided to lie about it, or if they were having mass hallucinations.

Or, like Noah's ark, just make up supernatural stories as many people did back then.

Noah's ark is a story. People in the Bronze Age were telling stories and parables to convey truths. They were not doing science nor writing analytical biography.

Noah's Ark is just "a story"? According to who? What else is just a story? Is Mary virgin birth just a story?

You haven't listed any science from the Bible with the possible exception of the resurrection.

The firmament. Jesus walking on water. Jesus healing any number of people. Mary getting magically pregnant by 'god'. Letting there "be light" before the light-producing stars were made. The majority of the Adam and Eve story including the talking serpent. Parting the sea with a stick. Magically creating plagues.

 

[ZenMode]

End of above post also @IBDaMann and @gfm7175

 

[Cypress]

... one would also have to explain why so many people were all willing to suffer death for "a lie".

People do not willingly die for something they actually know is a lie.

Even the esteemed atheist New Testament scholar Bart Ehrman believes the followers of Jesus genuinely believed they saw him after the crucifixion.

So a skeptic is left with the options to claim that the disciples were suffering mass hallucinations, or that Jesus wasn't killed by the crucifixion.

 

[Cypress]

Right, there are claims that run squarely against science.

It's called a firmament in the Bible. The writers of the Bible believed that the earth was enclosed with some solid structure that occasionally opened to let rain fall.

Those who interpret the Bible has repeatedly estimated it to be around 6000 years old based on genealogies.

Millions of years is still wrong.

An estimate of millions of years was an immense leap forward.

I appreciate you tacitly confessing that the Bible actually says nothing about the age of the Earth.

Or, like Noah's ark, just make up supernatural stories as many people did back then.

Noah's Ark is just "a story"? According to who? What else is just a story? Is Mary virgin birth just a story?

If you haven't noticed, the Jewish people and their Israelite ancestors are famous for being story-tellers.

There's nothing wrong with using storytelling, myth, parable to illustrate truths about the human condition.

If you're college educated, you should be able to consider the literary style and literary genre to determine if it's story, parable, poetry, or narrative history. Even high school students should be trained in this practice by a good English teacher.

The firmament. Jesus walking on water. Jesus healing any number of people. Mary getting magically pregnant by 'god'. Letting there "be light" before the light-producing stars were made. The majority of the Adam and Eve story including the talking serpent. Parting the sea with a stick. Magically creating plagues.

Genesis is widely recognized as Hebrew poetry.

In high school English class, your teacher should have told you that you don't read and interpret poetry, myth, parable, and science writing in the same way.

There are undoubtedly embellishments and literary licence used in the gospels. You have to use the techniques of literary criticism to infer the historically accurate narrative.

But if you read the entire New Testament, including the epistles, I think you would be surprised how relatively little magic is in it. A large majority of it is parable, historical narrative, instruction on practice and doctrine, moral teachings.

 

[gmark77]

"But if you read the entire New Testament, including the epistles, I think you would be surprised how relatively little magic is in it."

Just so long as you discount one of the most central and among the most important aspects to the entire thing: Jesus Resurrection. And if you discount all the miracles in the gospels.

Oh yeah and 3=1. That's pretty magical.

And surviving life inside a whale.

 

[Hume]

Just so long as you discount the central and most important aspect to the entire thing: Jesus Resurrection. And if you discount all the miracles in the gospels.

Christianity is essentially magic.

 

[Margot]

You are highly confused.

Perpetual virginity in Catholic doctrine means Mary never had biological children, even after Jesus was born. Catholics attempt to claim Jesus' brothers and sisters mentioned in the gospels really weren't siblings, but they were just cousins.

Protestants take a plain-reading approach of the written word in the gospel: Mary had biological children after Jesus was born, and they were siblings to Jesus.

This Catholic stance to deliberately twice Scriptures to push their
Perpetual Virgin theory ,is the single biggest reason there is so much conflict between denominations! One reason I steer clear of Denominations.

 

[gfm7175]

It's called a firmament in the Bible. The writers of the Bible believed that the earth was enclosed with some solid structure that occasionally opened to let rain fall.

Not what a firmament is. You also seem to know a lot about what the writers of the Bible believed even though you've never talked to them...

Those who interpret the Bible has repeatedly estimated it to be around 6000 years old based on genealogies.

Genealogies don't determine Earth's age.

Millions of years is still wrong.

Earth's age is unknown.

Or, like Noah's ark, just make up supernatural stories as many people did back then.

Yes, it's a story. It's also a historical event.

Noah's Ark is just "a story"?

No.

What else is just a story?

FTFY. Parables (sort of). However, even they aren't just stories. They are intentionally crafted to teach deeper truths.

Is Mary virgin birth just a story?

No.

The firmament.

An expanse. The sky. So?

Jesus walking on water.

A "miracle". Evidence that Jesus truly IS the Son of God.

Jesus healing any number of people.

What about it?

Mary getting magically pregnant by 'god'.

A "miracle". Because of this, Jesus truly IS, by nature, both God AND human.

Letting there "be light" before the light-producing stars were made.

God is a source of light.

The majority of the Adam and Eve story including the talking serpent.

What about it?

Parting the sea with a stick. Magically creating plagues.

"Miracles". Evidence of God being who he says he is.