if healthcare is a mandatory right

[SmarterthanYou]

Wondering how well this works with other so called rights.

Every home must have an operable rifle, shotgun, and handgun w/corresponding ammunition for each for home defense. Reason is that law enforcement is spread too thin and people have a right to protect themselves.

once a year, you must bring all 3 weapons and ammo to your local law enforcement for verification and inspection. For those that cannot afford those 3 weapons, they will be provided to you at a discounted price by a government program. These weapons will be from the hi-point manufacturer.
All citizens who will not provide 3 weapons for inspection or produce an inspection certificate on demand will be taxed 750 dollars each year.

 

[ironhead]

No human being has the right to another human being's labor, services, skills, etc. Health care is a service, which is purchased just like any other. Unfortunately, the gunvernment has done its usual disservice to everyone by distorting the market, inflating health care costs, and enthroning the health insurance corporations in the process. All is done in the name of "the greater good" and "helping people." Beware the law of unintended consequences - health care is no exception.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

The ironic thing about this health care scam... the very things the liberals claim they are after, will not be realized at all, and will actually have the opposite effect in the end. We will have less access to health care, the quality of care will be diminished, and it will cost us more. Fewer people will be able to get health care, more people will die, and our great-great grandkids will still be paying for it.

Currently, if we have an individual health care issue, WE get to determine what action to take... whether we go see a doctor, have a surgical procedure, or have tests done. When the government takes over, we will no longer have those options, we will be subject to what the government thinks is best for us, regardless of what we think. If the government doesn't believe it is worth it to treat our illness, because we are old or won't be able to contribute to society much longer, we'll just be shit outta luck. If the government thinks something is not necessary, they can just refuse to pay for it, and again... doesn't matter what we think then, we are at their mercy. At least now, we do have an 800 number to call and a representative at an insurance company to bitch at... who we gonna bitch at when government is in charge? Congress? What good does that do us now? They don't listen to us!

 

[tinfoil]

No human being has the right to another human being's labor, services, skills, etc. Health care is a service, which is purchased just like any other. Unfortunately, the gunvernment has done its usual disservice to everyone by distorting the market, inflating health care costs, and enthroning the health insurance corporations in the process. All is done in the name of "the greater good" and "helping people." Beware the law of unintended consequences - health care is no exception.

It all seems to be a perfect way to bring donators (read: INSURANCE COMPANIES) lots and lots of new customers that are likely to default on the insurance at some point. THEY'RE POOR AND CAN'T AFFORD INSURANCE, REMEMBER? So they are forced to buy a plan everyone knows they will never be able to afford into the future and the insurance company is sure to take home every penny they paid while they are suddenly out of insurance and criminals to boot.

What a sweet fucking plan.

And they got the liberals to tout it as the solution to a crisis.
LOL

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

It all seems to be a perfect way to bring donators (read: INSURANCE COMPANIES) lots and lots of new customers that are likely to default on the insurance at some point. THEY'RE POOR AND CAN'T AFFORD INSURANCE, REMEMBER? So they are forced to buy a plan everyone knows they will never be able to afford into the future and the insurance company is sure to take home every penny they paid while they are suddenly out of insurance and criminals to boot.

What a sweet fucking plan.

And they got the liberals to tout it as the solution to a crisis.
LOL

Well you do raise an interesting point, they certainly can't afford to shut down all the health insurance companies, too many jobs, too much stock... can you imagine if ALL the health insurance companies in America went under? Look at how just AIG affected things... Imagine that 500-fold?

But here we see Liberals filled with their hate for corporate America, eager to sick their fangs into Big Insurance! Let's force them to provide "insurance" coverage for every American! (There is really no such thing as "insurance for everyone" it is an oxymoron. If everyone is insured it is an entitlement, not insurance.) There is too much opposition to 'public option' as it stands, and the 'solution' they will compromise to, will be a triggered public option... you know... a mandated government program which will kick in after the public health insurance has taken all the money, paid their kickbacks, and gone bankrupt.

 

[tinfoil]

(There is really no such thing as "insurance for everyone" it is an oxymoron. If everyone is insured it is an entitlement, not insurance.)

That doesn't make sense.


The problem I see is they want to force the young and healthy to support the sick and old at the expense of the young and healthy's ability to save and build wealth. Traditionally, the young were able to use their health to their advantage. Now it will cost them far more than they will reap and once again, the boomers rip off the next generation. Thanks democrats

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

(There is really no such thing as "insurance for everyone" it is an oxymoron. If everyone is insured it is an entitlement, not insurance.)

That doesn't make sense.

Think about it... if EVERY person is guaranteed coverage, and the insurance company has to cover them regardless, pre-existing illnesses and all, it is no longer 'insurance' it is an entitlement program. Insurance is a risk-based proposition between parties, but if you tell the insurance companies they must cover everyone, regardless of risk, it stops being insurance and starts being a hand-out. Insurance companies price and sell insurance policies based on risk, how likely they may have to pay out claims. Suddenly, they will have to pay out claims regardless, because they were mandated to assume the risk. This is not insurance, and not how insurance works.

Let me ask you this... How much do you suppose a $1 million life insurance policy would cost, if the law said Life Insurance companies had to sell life insurance to relatives (as beneficiaries) of people who were already dead? Would that still be life insurance?

 

[belme1201]

The line for the Kool Aid forms to the right fellas.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

The line for the Kool Aid forms to the right fellas.

Well that's good, because the line to the left HAS to be bone dry!

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

Limosine liberals are laughing thier vegan asses off. They know the bill is a massive transfer of wealth from rich to poor. Thanks repubs in advance for folding on this one.

 

[ironhead]

Limosine liberals are laughing thier vegan asses off. They know the bill is a massive transfer of wealth from rich to poor. Thanks repubs in advance for folding on this one.

But your analysis, similar to that of the Left (though they view it as positive) is actually wrong. Forced health insurance is not a transfer of wealth from the rich to the poor, it is a transfer of wealth from the poor, the middle class, and the rich to the most politically-connected, elite health insurance corporations.

By mandating health insurance coverage (and that insurers cover pre-existing conditions) the state is ensuring only one thing: an even more massive distortion of the health care market than already exists! This will destroy any semblance of competition, which was pretty much dead anyway, but this will seal it. This will also necessarily raise prices by an unknown factor. How will insurance companies recoup losses from covering pre-existing conditions? Raising premiums or cutting coverage (or both) will likely be the result. Ultimately, this may be the greatest, enduring dole of corporate welfare ever devised, which will neither lower costs nor increase competition. It is the worst of both worlds.

Reform is most certainly needed, but it is needed in the opposite direction. The link between employer and insurance coverage needs to be severed. Once individuals begin paying for their own insurance, and thus, medical expenses, the massively inflated cost of health care will have to go down. The middle-man must be cut out; the individual must be made responsible again for his/her own insurance. Once this occurs, the market will have to reflect reality, which is that the price of health care is far too high to be sustained in a free market.

 

[Billy the Great Khan]

But your analysis, similar to that of the Left (though they view it as positive) is actually wrong. Forced health insurance is not a transfer of wealth from the rich to the poor, it is a transfer of wealth from the poor, the middle class, and the rich to the most politically-connected, elite health insurance corporations.

By mandating health insurance coverage (and that insurers cover pre-existing conditions) the state is ensuring only one thing: an even more massive distortion of the health care market than already exists! This will destroy any semblance of competition, which was pretty much dead anyway, but this will seal it. This will also necessarily raise prices by an unknown factor. How will insurance companies recoup losses from covering pre-existing conditions? Raising premiums or cutting coverage (or both) will likely be the result. Ultimately, this may be the greatest, enduring dole of corporate welfare ever devised, which will neither lower costs nor increase competition. It is the worst of both worlds.

Reform is most certainly needed, but it is needed in the opposite direction. The link between employer and insurance coverage needs to be severed. Once individuals begin paying for their own insurance, and thus, medical expenses, the massively inflated cost of health care will have to go down. The middle-man must be cut out; the individual must be made responsible again for his/her own insurance. Once this occurs, the market will have to reflect reality, which is that the price of health care is far too high to be sustained in a free market.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

Limosine liberals are laughing thier vegan asses off. They know the bill is a massive transfer of wealth from rich to poor. Thanks repubs in advance for folding on this one.

no doubt. all that seems to be left are either dismantle this transfer when the repubs win next election or resort to violent resistance. I hope the former, because the latter is gonna get ugly.

 

[tinfoil]

But your analysis, similar to that of the Left (though they view it as positive) is actually wrong. Forced health insurance is not a transfer of wealth from the rich to the poor, it is a transfer of wealth from the poor, the middle class, and the rich to the most politically-connected, elite health insurance corporations.

By mandating health insurance coverage (and that insurers cover pre-existing conditions) the state is ensuring only one thing: an even more massive distortion of the health care market than already exists! This will destroy any semblance of competition, which was pretty much dead anyway, but this will seal it. This will also necessarily raise prices by an unknown factor. How will insurance companies recoup losses from covering pre-existing conditions? Raising premiums or cutting coverage (or both) will likely be the result. Ultimately, this may be the greatest, enduring dole of corporate welfare ever devised, which will neither lower costs nor increase competition. It is the worst of both worlds.

Reform is most certainly needed, but it is needed in the opposite direction. The link between employer and insurance coverage needs to be severed. Once individuals begin paying for their own insurance, and thus, medical expenses, the massively inflated cost of health care will have to go down. The middle-man must be cut out; the individual must be made responsible again for his/her own insurance. Once this occurs, the market will have to reflect reality, which is that the price of health care is far too high to be sustained in a free market.

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