If not for the bailouts & stimulus package...

Dixie said:
My predictions are right on target. I said back in January, with the influx of the stimulus money, the market couldn't do anything but go up, that much money injected into the system is going to cause a rise in the markets, it doesn't take much brains to figure that out. I also said it would be temporary, and we will see what happens now. I predict the gains will not last.

What you are just too stupid to figure out is, the government CAN'T fix the problems with the economy! If government COULD do that, then politicians would do so, every time there was any indication of decline, to ensure their re-elections. About the ONLY action government can take to help the economy, is to cut taxes.

As it stands, we have completely mortgaged our children and grandchildren's futures, so we could watch the market temporarily go above 10k, and Obama bask in some temporary glory for it. We didn't have the money to do what we did, we borrowed and printed it, and we continue to do so on a daily basis. This can't be sustained long-term, no matter how much glue you sniff.

No jobs have been created, another 2 million are now unemployed, another 20k homes have been foreclosed, another 5k small businesses have tanked, and we are about to face inflation like we haven't seen since the 70's. You think the problem has been fixed by The One? We'll see about that, moron!
Click to expand...


Well, to start with, jobs HAVE been created, so you're wrong there.

To me, nothing screams "I don't understand economics!" more than someone who says it's meaningless that the market has gone up, because people are still losing jobs and homes.

Here's how it works, if you want to learn something: it STARTS with the market. That's why they call something like jobs a "lagging indicator." All of those people who hire? They need to have some confidence that the economy is turning around before they can do that. Most companies plan layoffs or hires a quarter or 2 in advance. SO, a big rally in the market now (and you'll never admit it, but you never thought the market would be so high by now), likely means new hiring sometime in the 1st half of next year.

As for housing - people need jobs to hang onto their houses, so foreclosures will only reduce after hiring begins again. That's why they call jobs & foreclosures "lagging indicators." It's rare that the market goes up, massive hiring is done the following week and foreclosures reduce the week after that.

I really hope this helps, Dixie....
 
Onceler said:
Well, to start with, jobs HAVE been created, so you're wrong there.

To me, nothing screams "I don't understand economics!" more than someone who says it's meaningless that the market has gone up, because people are still losing jobs and homes.

Here's how it works, if you want to learn something: it STARTS with the market. That's why they call something like jobs a "lagging indicator." All of those people who hire? They need to have some confidence that the economy is turning around before they can do that. Most companies plan layoffs or hires a quarter or 2 in advance. SO, a big rally in the market now (and you'll never admit it, but you never thought the market would be so high by now), likely means new hiring sometime in the 1st half of next year.

As for housing - people need jobs to hang onto their houses, so foreclosures will only reduce after hiring begins again. That's why they call jobs & foreclosures "lagging indicators." It's rare that the market goes up, massive hiring is done the following week and foreclosures reduce the week after that.

I really hope this helps, Dixie....
Click to expand...

So, what jobs have been created? Are they temporary or permanent?

15.1 million people are unemployed now and the figures are rising each month.
 
Onzies, you are so stupid it's a miracle you are still around. Here's how this works, when you lose 500,000 jobs per month, you aren't creating new jobs! You can put as much lipstick on the pig as you like, call it a 'jobless recovery' or whatever, most Americans who are presently unemployed, do not think the economy is getting better, and are not very optimistic about the future. The unemployment rate among young people and minorities is at a level we haven't seen in 60 years.

We have had four straight quarters of negative growth, we are still in a recession, despite what Democrats continue to claim. The market went above 10k largely due to the gains in the financial sector... the same financial institutions we just pumped a trillion dollars into. I understand you HOPE this sparks consumer confidence and confidence in the market, but that remains to be seen. I kind of doubt it will, since most business people (who have more brains than you) know the reason the market has gone above 10k is because of all the TARP money, and nothing more. Subsequently, they are also looking at the coming massive increases in taxation, which greatly increases their cost of doing business. So I don't think we are headed for Happy Days anytime soon.

Inflation hasn't started yet, really. This will probably start to happen toward the end of the year, and it will effectively kill any chance of recovery. Here's how this works... The more money you print, the less it is worth. China will not loan us any more money, so the only way our government has to sustain what is presently being done, is to have the Fed print more. The further in the toilet the dollar goes, the less we can buy with it, therefore, we have inflation. This is going to happen, and there isn't a damn thing your Messiah can do to prevent it, except LIE about it, as usual.

What we are seeing is a nice little smoke and mirror show, just like when Bill Clinton gave us a budget surplus that really wasn't a surplus, but was in fact, an inclusion of the Social Security Trust Fund into the General Fund. Sometime around January, King Obama will announce some new government initiative, and he will claim this will create a million new jobs, and you nitwit pinheads will be running around claiming... SEE...NEW JOBS CREATED! TOLDYA SO! You people are so gullible an stupid, you will buy into anything, especially if it's coming from a Communist Socialist.
 
Smoke & mirrors - a good description of your posts.

Face it - you don't get economics. It's not something you've studied, and you have only the faintest notion of what it entails.

Just to repeat, here is the order of things:

1) Market - this goes up first
2) Jobs - 1st level of lagging indicator; jobs will continue to be lost even as the market is going up. Employers plan hires based on increasing market, but for next quarter or the quarter after. Ergo, a rise in the market now = jobs in 3-6 months.
3) Housing - 2nd level of lagging indicator. Employment must increase & people must get jobs to keep their houses.

It's working, Dix; the disaster you had predicted from the stimulus and bailouts did not transpire, and economic indicators have exceeded some of the rosier prognostications from earlier in the year. Your worst fear is happening - Obama's plans are working.
 
Onceler said:
Smoke & mirrors - a good description of your posts.

Face it - you don't get economics. It's not something you've studied, and you have only the faintest notion of what it entails.

Just to repeat, here is the order of things:

1) Market - this goes up first
2) Jobs - 1st level of lagging indicator; jobs will continue to be lost even as the market is going up. Employers plan hires based on increasing market, but for next quarter or the quarter after. Ergo, a rise in the market now = jobs in 3-6 months.
3) Housing - 2nd level of lagging indicator. Employment must increase & people must get jobs to keep their houses.

It's working, Dix; the disaster you had predicted from the stimulus and bailouts did not transpire, and economic indicators have exceeded some of the rosier prognostications from earlier in the year. Your worst fear is happening - Obama's plans are working.
Click to expand...

you forgot to mention bush....and in reality, what is happening now is due largely to bush's bailouts, not obama's stimulus....
 
When they start talking about Americas lost decade I can only hope the Keynesians and Socialists finally come to terms it simply doesn't work.
 
Dixie said:
Onzies, you are so stupid it's a miracle you are still around. Here's how this works, when you lose 500,000 jobs per month, you aren't creating new jobs! You can put as much lipstick on the pig as you like, call it a 'jobless recovery' or whatever, most Americans who are presently unemployed, do not think the economy is getting better, and are not very optimistic about the future. The unemployment rate among young people and minorities is at a level we haven't seen in 60 years.

We have had four straight quarters of negative growth, we are still in a recession, despite what Democrats continue to claim. The market went above 10k largely due to the gains in the financial sector... the same financial institutions we just pumped a trillion dollars into. I understand you HOPE this sparks consumer confidence and confidence in the market, but that remains to be seen. I kind of doubt it will, since most business people (who have more brains than you) know the reason the market has gone above 10k is because of all the TARP money, and nothing more. Subsequently, they are also looking at the coming massive increases in taxation, which greatly increases their cost of doing business. So I don't think we are headed for Happy Days anytime soon.

Inflation hasn't started yet, really. This will probably start to happen toward the end of the year, and it will effectively kill any chance of recovery. Here's how this works... The more money you print, the less it is worth. China will not loan us any more money, so the only way our government has to sustain what is presently being done, is to have the Fed print more. The further in the toilet the dollar goes, the less we can buy with it, therefore, we have inflation. This is going to happen, and there isn't a damn thing your Messiah can do to prevent it, except LIE about it, as usual.

What we are seeing is a nice little smoke and mirror show, just like when Bill Clinton gave us a budget surplus that really wasn't a surplus, but was in fact, an inclusion of the Social Security Trust Fund into the General Fund. Sometime around January, King Obama will announce some new government initiative, and he will claim this will create a million new jobs, and you nitwit pinheads will be running around claiming... SEE...NEW JOBS CREATED! TOLDYA SO! You people are so gullible an stupid, you will buy into anything, especially if it's coming from a Communist Socialist.
Click to expand...

Welcome back, Dixie. Do you want a really good laugh? Summers said 30,000 jobs have been created. HAHAHAHA
 
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