Ignorance and the Bible
- Thread starter domer76
- Start date
Since when does the burden of proof rest on the person who fails to believe in something?
Apart from the Bible accounts (none of which are contemporary), who else witnessed it?
Based Chad
Was it me?
if you're anti-fluoride. you gotta prove it to the poison guzzlers who are afraid to look things up.
Based Chad
Was it me?
"prove how neurotoxins are dumb to ingest"
nevermind.
have another glass of water, dumbass.
nevermind.
have another glass of water, dumbass.
That's some real fancy dancing. Sophistry and word smithing.
All nations of the world means all nations of the world. There wasn't a Jewish diaspora everywhere in the world.
The Great Commission is also in Mark:
"And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved"
Why do atheists always insist they know the correct way Christians should practice their religion? That is really weird.
Jesus was a Jew. The Gospel of Matthew was written for a Jewish audience. The sermon on the mount was given to a Jewish crowd.
Of course Jesus is going to tell Jews to follow the law. Following the law is what it means to be Jewish. I don't know why atheists think this is such a "gotcha" moment.
Jesus wasn't speaking to a gentile audience on the Mount, and he said nothing about the relationship of Jewish ritual, civil, and dietary law to gentiles.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
Typical atheist cop-out. Who on this thread gives a shit if you believe Jesus existed or not? I don't.
As noted above, I agree with Cypress that there are too many witnesses for me to believe a bunch of desert nomads made the story up out of whole cloth like L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology.
OTOH, there's no such thing as miracles or magic. Ergo, although I believe Jesus existed and was nailed to a cross, I also believe the short duration of his crucifixion allowed him to survive it. At least for the weekend. The fact he disappeared shortly thereafter indicates he either fled the country or, most likely, died of his injuries. No miracle needed, no atheist conspiracy theories necessary. Just a remarkable story like the lone survivor of the Air India crash.
If you have multiple written accounts of an event that purports to be historical, the intellectually honest person will have a reason to think they're not true.
Atheists on this board used to have absolutely no problem saying that the resurrection accounts were fabrications, a story cooked up out of whole cloth much later on.
But recently they're have been tip-toeing away from that theory as the weaknesses get pointed out.
How many non-pagan non-Greeks witnessed Socrates?
How many non-pagan non-vikings witnessed Erik the Red?
How many witnesses do you need? Multiple independent accounts in the New Testament claims 500 people, all of Jesus disciples, and his brother.
I'd love for you to now claim everybody conspired to make up the story.
gfm7175
Mega MAGA
What about the whole "side piercing" thing, where blood and water spilled out of him? Jesus survived that too, eh?
Based Chad
Was it me?
that's your Jew interpretation.
Agreed. If one wants to explain why the disciples seem to have believed they saw Jesus after the crucifixion, that's the only rational explanation that passes the smell test to me.
Based Chad
Was it me?
so we have Zionists and masons fighting here.
both of them liars.
both of them liars.
There is no indication that I know of where Jesus wanted anyone to violate the law to find salvation. His message was simple. Follow the law and repent for your sins and you’ll be forgiven. Then you can enter the kingdom.
Unlike Paul, who said something entirely different. He said following the law was insufficient. You had to accept and believe the death and resurrection of Christ to enter the kingdom. Accept a human sacrifice to gain eternal life. What an odd message!
Based Chad
Was it me?
except he explicitly DID SAY it didn't matter for anyone.....
It's probably bullshit.
That account is only found in John, so it's not attested to by multiple sources.
Undoubtedly, tens of thousands of men thoroughout human history have survived a spear wound to the side.
To me, the important question is whether the disciples came to genuinely believe they saw Jesus after the crucifixion. If they believed if, that doesn't mean he actually rose from the dead. There could be other explanations for why they believed it.
It's highly unlikely you could get that many people to coordinate and conspire go invent the story out of whole cloth and stick with it for decades.
People also aren't willing to suffer and die for something they know is a lie. Peter, Paul, and James did not get money, glory, or power for their claims. They faced beatings, imprisonment, and execution for clinging to their belief about what they saw. That's pretty powerful evidence that they believed their own claims.
I still don't. Because it isn't important. It's ONLY important for theological reasons. The possible "survival" hypothesis just makes the whole enterprise even more "made up".
One thing I find when debating the religious is it is exceedingly important for them to constantly tell everyone about their "victories" against the ebil atheist. I find it boring.
Just any. The stories in the Synoptics are all decades after the fact. We don't even know who wrote them.
At this point I'd accept SOMETHING rather than the thin gruel of a scrap of papyrus somewhere.
Outside of the Bible? Where.
Why does it have to be a "conspiracy"? You know people could pass around stories and things accidentally get added on. God, why must you attack non-stop? No one is proposing a CONSPIRACY.
It's clear you hate hate hate atheism. You are not alone. Many do. But ask yourself: why do you fear and hate anyone's questions on this point?
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
As you pointed out, people don't die for something they don't believe in. I think they genuinely believed.
Their belief was so strong that they gathered others who found hope in Christianity even if persecuted by both the Romans and the Jews.
While it's unlikely the Romans, much less the Jewish hierarchy, would have written about a crucified carpenter, the fact remains that the religion grew and people died for their beliefs.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
Paranoid much?
I, for one, don't hate atheists. I just think they are as wacky as televangelists.
Jesus was the government and took the two loaves and 5 fish from unwilling victims?
That's not the way I read the story.
Paranoid much?
It just seems that atheism is something Cypress does not like. He seems to be OK with agnosticism, but really holds some dislike for atheism. Every time he mentions them they are either "militant" or they back "conspiracy theories" etc. Really seems down on atheism.
Televangelist? Wacky? I don't understand why either word applies.