Ignorance and the Bible

[Cypress]

We often comment on the same stories in the OT because the true believers keep harping on the inerrant nature of their holy book. The childish mentality and blatant discrepancies in Genesis make it such low hanging fruit. Not to mention the virgin birth with the two entirely different stories or the equally impossible and differing resurrection myths. You can also toss in the absurd notion of the Trinity as an afterthought.

If you think the Old Testament is so shameful and idiotic, why don't you confront and complain to your Jewish neighbors and colleagues about it? Jews are the ones who wrote it.

I don't think the Hebrew Bible is shameful. It's one of western civilization's greatest works of literature and a repository of classical wisdom and social justice.

The wisdom literature, the ethical teachings of the Hebrew prophets, the moral laws of Torah are nice enough.

But I've never been to any Christian church where the Deuteronomistic history, or the Mosaic holiness codes, the civil, ritual, or dietary laws of the Torah play any significant role in Christian practice.

 

[Into the Night]

We are only one god different in our atheism than Christians.

Atheism is not a religion. There is no specified god in atheism. The possibility that there is a god or gods is possible though in atheism.

When anyone can provide a sliver of credible evidence that a god exists, I’ll abandon my atheism immediately.

You are not an atheist. You are a fundamentalist in the Church of No God. Attempted proof by negation. Redefinition fallacy.

The Christian god is the one we’re most familiar with,

Having another schizophrenic episode? You are not a 'we'. You don't get to speak for everyone, dummy. Omniscience fallacy.

the one we are surrounded by and the one that is constantly trying to be inserted into our public lives. It follows that it would be the main target.

Illiteracy: Redefinitions. Use of plural for singular. The beginning of a sentence is always capitalized. Use of void construct as noun.

 

[Into the Night]

We Are living in Old Testament times, since Israel returned in 1948

Illiteracy: Use of plural for singular. Use of a nation as a time interval.

 

[gmark77]

If you think the Old Testament is so shameful and idiotic, why don't you confront and complain to your Jewish neighbors and colleagues about it? Jews are the ones who wrote it.

Why not just discuss it with CHRISTIANS. They also have to account for the OT. It is part of the faith.

I don't think the Hebrew Bible is shameful.

There are parts which are. Surely you are not a fan of genocide.

It's one of western civilization's greatest works of literature and a repository of classical wisdom and social justice.

As well as gross social injustice.

It has both good and bad.

 

[Into the Night]

Were you aware of the polytheistic nature of the Old Testament?

No.

Were you aware of the discrepancies in the Jesus birth stories?

No.

Were you aware that your god was originally a mere second tier storm god?

No.

Were you aware that the idea of the Trinity came a couple hundred years or so after the crucifixion?

No.

Were you aware that the Messiah was not supposed to die?

No.

Were you aware that the deification of Jesus was in response to the death of the Messiah?

No.

Were you aware that the Trinity was a theological fix for the problem created by the deification of Jesus?

No.

Of course not.

Agreed. Where do you get this stuff, dummy?

 

[Into the Night]

Why not just discuss it with CHRISTIANS. They also have to account for the OT. It is part of the faith.

Yes it is. The demarcation between the two was Jesus Christ.

There are parts which are. Surely you are not a fan of genocide.

What genocide? Be specific.

As well as gross social injustice.

What gross social injustice? Be specific.

It has both good and bad.

Like much of the Bible, which often describes the sins of Man, the influence of Satan, and the gospel of Jesus Christ and God.

 

[gmark77]

What genocide? Be specific.

"Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass."

 

[Cypress]

Why not just discuss it with CHRISTIANS. They also have to account for the OT. It is part of the faith.



There are parts which are. Surely you are not a fan of genocide.



As well as gross social injustice.

It has both good and bad.

So you won't confront Jews about their own Bible....why?

Is it because you aren't actually a principled and even-handed atheist, you are just an anti-Christian zealot?

 

[Hume]

So you won't confront Jews about their own Bible....why?

Is it because you aren't actually a principled and even-handed atheist, you are just an anti-Christian zealot?

I thought you claimed to NOT be Christian?

 

[gmark77]

So you won't confront Jews about their own Bible....why?

I would GLADLY discuss it with Jews. I don't have any Jewish friends to discuss this with. For all I know you were born into a Jewish family or maybe others were I don't know.

So your suggestion that I'm scared of discussing this with Jews is unfounded. I hate to tell you but your "gotcha" wasn't anything.

Is it because you aren't actually a principled and even-handed atheist, you are just an anti-Christian zealot?

Not sure why it always needs to be an attack with you. So strange. Can't you debate the point without making it personal?

 

[Into the Night]

"Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass."

Okay. Do you think the Lord is not capable of genocide? Why does He not have the right of genocide? If you read the rest of it, you will find that Amalek was NOT totally destroyed, and held Saul responsible.

 

[Cypress]

We went over this already. The BGV is only classic spacetime and makes no statement on the origin of the universe. It would behoove you to not keep trying the same failed references.

That's exactly what I originally said. It BGV Demonstrates the universe had a beginning, but makes no statement about how it was created.

In other words, the universe sprang into existence from nothing for reasons we don't understand. The atheist belief system is that a lawfully ordered and finely tuned universe blinked into existence by inanimate random chance.

You never even heard of the theorem 24 hours ago, and your knowledge is limited to what you could Google for five minutes.

I provided the quote from one of the authors of the theorem, stating that it indicates the universe had a beginning, and there is no evidence of an eternal universe.

The answer to the question, “Did the universe have a beginning?” is, “It probably did.” We have no viable models of an eternal universe. The BGV theorem gives us reason to believe that such models simply cannot be constructed.​

​

Alexander Valenkin ​

​

​

 

[Hume]

That's exactly what I originally said. It BGV Demonstrates the universe had a beginning, but makes no statement about how it was created.

In other words, the universe sprang into existence from nothing for reasons we don't understand

You never even heard of the theorem 24 hours ago, and your knowledge is limited to what you could Google for five minutes.

I provided the quote from one of the authors of the theorem, stating that it indicates the universe had a beginning, and there is no evidence of an eternal universe.

The answer to the question, “Did the universe have a beginning?” is, “It probably did.” We have no viable models of an eternal universe. The BGV theorem gives us reason to believe that such models simply cannot be constructed.​

​

Alexander Valenkin ​

​

​

God did it. Never gets tiresome.

 

[Cypress]

I would GLADLY discuss it with Jews.

Don't sugar coat this.

Not a discussion.

Confront and complain to Jewish neighbors about how genocidal, wicked, and murderous the Hebrew God is. In the same manner you confront Christians about it.

 

[gmark77]

Don't sugar coat this.

Not a discussion.

Confront and complain to Jewish neighbors about how genocidal, wicked, and murderous the Hebrew God is. In the same manner you confront Christians about it.

Sorry this upsets you so. Perhaps debating religion isn't for you.

 

[Ross Dolan]

We are only one god different in our atheism than Christians.

When anyone can provide a sliver of credible evidence that a god exists, I’ll abandon my atheism immediately.

The Christian god is the one we’re most familiar with, the one we are surrounded by and the one that is constantly trying to be inserted into our public lives. It follows that it would be the main target.

All of which has NOTHING to do with the questions I asked...and which the two of you are avoiding.

You two are both anxious to tell Christians how ignorant (or naive) they are for their "beliefs." And I am anxious to tell atheists how ignorant (or naive) they are for theirs.

Christians do not know that a god exists...they are just guessing and making all sorts of comments and jumping through all sorts of hoops attempting to justify those guesses. Atheists are just guessing that no gods exist or that it is more likely that no gods exist than that one does...and making all sorts of comments and jumping through all sorts of hoops attempting to justify their guesses.

So...

 

[domer76]

If you think the Old Testament is so shameful and idiotic, why don't you confront and complain to your Jewish neighbors and colleagues about it? Jews are the ones who wrote it.

I don't think the Hebrew Bible is shameful. It's one of western civilization's greatest works of literature and a repository of classical wisdom and social justice.

The wisdom literature, the ethical teachings of the Hebrew prophets, the moral laws of Torah are nice enough.

But I've never been to any Christian church where the Deuteronomistic history, or the Mosaic holiness codes, the civil, ritual, or dietary laws of the Torah play any significant role in Christian practice.

I don’t have any Jewish neighbors. And they sure as shit aren’t trying to put their holy book into the local schools.

The OT is full of rape, slavery and mass murder. And the OT god is responsible for it all.

 

[domer76]

That's exactly what I originally said. It BGV Demonstrates the universe had a beginning, but makes no statement about how it was created.

In other words, the universe sprang into existence from nothing for reasons we don't understand. The atheist belief system is that a lawfully ordered and finely tuned universe blinked into existence by inanimate random chance.

You never even heard of the theorem 24 hours ago, and your knowledge is limited to what you could Google for five minutes.

I provided the quote from one of the authors of the theorem, stating that it indicates the universe had a beginning, and there is no evidence of an eternal universe.

The answer to the question, “Did the universe have a beginning?” is, “It probably did.” We have no viable models of an eternal universe. The BGV theorem gives us reason to believe that such models simply cannot be constructed.​

​

Alexander Valenkin ​

​

​

Blinked into existence? LOL

I read enough of the theorem to know it is based on classical spacetime, which physicists indicate doesn’t apply. So why do you insist on repeating it?

 

[domer76]

Don't sugar coat this.

Not a discussion.

Confront and complain to Jewish neighbors about how genocidal, wicked, and murderous the Hebrew God is. In the same manner you confront Christians about it.

Are you saying the OT god was NOT genocidal? He had his followers slaughter entire cities - man, woman, child AND animals.

Fuck man!