I'm no lawyer , but...

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This is why I believe a tax to pay for health care is unconstitutional.
Taxes are imposed to pay for govt. services. Healthcare is not a govt. service unless it is performed by the govt. which would mean docs, et al would have to be govt. employees.

ACA makes it illegal to not buy health ins. and not doing so would incur a penalty or as Chief Justice Roberts called it, a tax.

To me this is clearly govt. intrusion telling us it is a crime to not buy a commodity or a service which has nothing to do with a person's rights or privilege.
Obviously it's a crime to not have car insurance if owning and driving a vehicle since a license is needed for that purpose making driving a privilege, not a right.

Also, why shouldn't a person have the right to go without hlth. ins.? After all there is no license needed for being alive.


Discuss.
 
It's not an easy discussion. How do you feel about repealing EMTALA? Do you think people would be more apt to carry insurance?
 
aloysious said:
This is why I believe a tax to pay for health care is unconstitutional.
Taxes are imposed to pay for govt. services. Healthcare is not a govt. service unless it is performed by the govt. which would mean docs, et al would have to be govt. employees.

ACA makes it illegal to not buy health ins. and not doing so would incur a penalty or as Chief Justice Roberts called it, a tax.

To me this is clearly govt. intrusion telling us it is a crime to not buy a commodity or a service which has nothing to do with a person's rights or privilege.
Obviously it's a crime to not have car insurance if owning and driving a vehicle since a license is needed for that purpose making driving a privilege, not a right.

Also, why shouldn't a person have the right to go without hlth. ins.? After all there is no license needed for being alive.


Discuss.
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Does the government build bridges and roads? Nope. They contract to do so. The same with any number of government "services"
 
Althea said:
It's not an easy discussion. How do you feel about repealing EMTALA?
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I don't . That's why there's a triage in ER's. I worked as an orderly in a private hospital ER decades ago. If you went there to get pain meds for a back ache, believe me it wasn't worth it.
Althea said:
Do you think people would be more apt to carry insurance?
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Not at all. I was raised to never go without health ins. Some are raised to constantly find ways to try to work the system or society owes them. The latter generally have pretty shitty lives.
 
domer76 said:
Does the government build bridges and roads? Nope. They contract to do so. The same with any number of government "services"
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That's true but govt. does not contract health services except for its employees, military personnel, e.g.
So the overwhelming majority of folks are not govt. employees therefore do not go to govt. contracted docs.
But it sounds like you believe it's the government's responsibility to provide hlth. care and we should therefore be taxed for it.
So if that's true, wouldn't the govt. be responsible for contracting with docs?
Some docs would go for that, especially those right out of school without an established practice or those with low ambition that don't want the responsibility of a private practice.
And some do. Those that work for CHC's or the VA, e.g.
 
aloysious said:
That's true but govt. does not contract health services except for its employees, military personnel, e.g.
So the overwhelming majority of folks are not govt. employees therefore do not go to govt. contracted docs.
But it sounds like you believe it's the government's responsibility to provide hlth. care and we should therefore be taxed for it.
So if that's true, wouldn't the govt. be responsible for contracting with docs?
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Medicare? Medicaid?

I think universal health care is one of those things that the General Welfare Clause in the Constitution intended to include.
 
domer76 said:
Medicare? Medicaid?
I think universal health care is one of those things that the General Welfare Clause in the Constitution intended to include.
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Good point. So a lawyer could argue that since Medicare and Medicaid are in place a tax payer funded universal health care should be a natural extension.
I could see a scenario where universal Medicaid pays for limited services.
 
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aloysious said:
I don't . That's why there's a triage in ER's. I worked as an orderly in a private hospital ER decades ago. If you went there to get pain meds for a back ache, believe me it wasn't worth it.
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Triage typically connotes seriousness. It could be argued that decades ago, insurance was much cheaper. So were meds.. Hell, a typical office visit was easy to pay for in cash. Today, these triage facilities are being used for primary care. That's because EMTALA guarantees free treatment.

This is similar to the death penalty/deterrent debate. Would doing away with EMTALA act as a deterrent to not making sure you have insurance? If one wants to make the argument that the govt. cannot force people to purchase insurance, why should it have the right to force hospitals to give care for free?


Not at all. I was raised to never go without health ins. Some are raised to constantly find ways to try to work the system or society owes them. The latter generally have pretty shitty lives.
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Forcing people to carry insurance, is the answer to those who are gaming the system....no? Not everyone had the mentality we did about insurance.
 
domer76 said:
Medicare? Medicaid?

I think universal health care is one of those things that the General Welfare Clause in the Constitution intended to include.
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Then why didn't the founders spell out healthcare specifically and not leave it up to your imagination

I know you want the gobblement to care for you because you apparently can't do it yourself. You on food stamps and in public housing too?

Why not make general welfare to mean free computers too?
 
Althea said:
Forcing people to carry insurance, is the answer to those who are gaming the system....no? Not everyone had the mentality we did about insurance.
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That was part of my Moosecare plan. Everybody pays into something and tax deferred health savings accounts was an alternative to insurance and/or taxes to fund universal Medicaid. This would give an advantage (reward) to those who practice personal responsibility and have a lower chance of needing catastrophic health care.
 
Teflon Don said:
Then why didn't the founders spell out healthcare specifically and not leave it up to your imagination

I know you want the gobblement to care for you because you apparently can't do it yourself. You on food stamps and in public housing too?

Why not make general welfare to mean free computers too?
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Are you vying for the #1 Dumbfuck of the forum, because you're making a damn good effort at it.

Increasing longevity and wellness, preventing and treating disease and promoting and improving the health of our citizens IS in the interest of the General Welfare, you fucking dolt.
 
Roberts ruled the mandated payment generated by economic activity IS unconstitutional.
A tax is not.

That' what it is according to SCOTUS
 
anatta said:
Roberts ruled the mandated payment generated by economic activity IS unconstitutional.
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Then I was right in the first sentence of my OP.
anatta said:
A tax is not.
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But ACA is a mandated payment by economic activity, is it not? Further, there is a mandated payment to a monopoly in seven states (the last I heard).
anatta said:
That' what it is according to SCOTUS
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Once again, I'm no lawyer but the majority sounds dead wrong on this.
 
Teflon Don said:
Then why didn't the founders spell out healthcare specifically and not leave it up to your imagination

I know you want the gobblement to care for you because you apparently can't do it yourself. You on food stamps and in public housing too?

Why not make general welfare to mean free computers too?
Click to expand...

When the Constitution was written a Dr. visit cost one chicken or a home cooked meal.
Why do you hate honesty?
 
aloysious said:
That was part of my Moosecare plan. Everybody pays into something and tax deferred health savings accounts was an alternative to insurance and/or taxes to fund universal Medicaid. This would give an advantage (reward) to those who practice personal responsibility and have a lower chance of needing catastrophic health care.
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Yes, but as I recall, the HSA only approach would leave one in dire straights in the event of a catastrophe before your balance was high enough.
 
Rune said:
When the Constitution was written a Dr. visit cost one chicken or a home cooked meal.
Why do you hate honesty?
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I love when they try to tie the Constitution to things that were never fathomable in the 18th century. Did the Founder believe we should fund NASA?
 
Althea said:
I love when they try to tie the Constitution to things that were never fathomable in the 18th century. Did the Founder believe we should fund NASA?
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There were a lot of science enthusiasts who were members of scientific societies. They promoted such causes as discovering the Northwest Passage. Not sure if they ever promoted government expenditures on their projects. By the time John Quincy Adams was president, however, he was advocating government spending on internal improvements.
 
Rune said:
When the Constitution was written a Dr. visit cost one chicken or a home cooked meal.
Why do you hate honesty?
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That is irrelevant.

The federal gobblement is the largest payor of healthcare in our country and yet prices continually go up and options down like with all things the gobblement does.

Yet nimrods like you want them to control your life
 
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