Imagine No Religion...
- Thread starter Dixie - In Memoriam
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Dixie - In Memoriam
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You can cling to this silly illogical notion the rest of your life, it won't make it true. The attitudes and behaviors which facilitate TRUST and any consideration of 'mutually beneficial cooperation' are rooted in human spirituality. If what you stated were true, all animals in the animal kingdom would practice morality, and they certainly don't. We would see larger animals showing compassion to their prey, bears would practice capture and release... this doesn't happen in nature.
Most animals can't build a car either, or mow a lawn....
I agree that not all Religion is spiritual, you should read what I said, and take a basic logic class.
Just because all Religion is spiritual does not mean that all Spirituality is Religion, and that was my point.
Which is silliness. It's like saying, "Imagine there is no other religion than mine!" It would sure be peaceful, but it wouldn't be Earth either, nor would it be humanity.
Maybe so, but at least you make a vaild point and are not confusing spirituality with religen. They are clearly two seperate things. Personally I belive a perfect world would be one with no religen, as long as people acknoledged there is more to the world than what we can see and hear. Clearly that will never happen, but its fine to talk about and consider.
Its no more silly than a song that says, "dont go chasing waterfalls, stick to the rivers and streems you know so well."
Imagine there is no religion that was anything but peacefull and loving?
Dixie - In Memoriam
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Jarhead, I really do try to read what you say and apply logic, but it's just not possible to do sometimes. Religion is organized spirituality. Not all spirituality is religiously organized. That doesn't change the fact that Religion is representative of spiritual belief for MANY individuals.
Airstrip One
Completely Effed
Great post....and spot on.
But my point is that they are not the same, the two words are not synomous and your argument depends on them being the same. Maybe its over your head.
Dixie - In Memoriam
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No, I never said or implied that Religion and Spirituality were synonymous. They are not the same, Religion is a byproduct of Spirituality. Religion is the way many humans express and experience their spiritual beliefs, and it is synonymous with what those individuals spiritually believe. I'm sure that's way over your head.
Dixie, you say:
"Religion, or to a greater extent, human spirituality, is the fundamental thing which separates us from the rest of the animal kingdom."
I agree that the statement as it relates to Human Spirituality is mostly true, as it relates to religion, I belive it is mostly untrue.
The remainder of your post confuses Human Spirituality for Religion which is the HUGE falacy in your argument.
"Religion, or to a greater extent, human spirituality, is the fundamental thing which separates us from the rest of the animal kingdom."
I agree that the statement as it relates to Human Spirituality is mostly true, as it relates to religion, I belive it is mostly untrue.
The remainder of your post confuses Human Spirituality for Religion which is the HUGE falacy in your argument.
Thanks, you're absolutely right...
....my mis-statement.....I meant their intention was to not allow the FEDERAL Government to establish or promote a particular religion....
Maybe, but the 14th Amendment took care of that.
I'm not in agreement with your statement at all. Religion itself is by its very nature spiritual and a form of spirituality. John Lennon is basically singing that if everybody believed as he did, then the world would be great. However, attempts to create such utopia have failed because they fail to understand and take into account actual humanity. People, even if they agree on a subject, will always be people. Even if nobody believed in "Heaven" or there was no "God to live or die for"... Or any of the other lines that are in the song meant he was speaking of "spirituality" rather than religion, his song is nice-sounding nonsense sentences.
To be accurate the song should be named, "Imagine there's no people, then people could live in peace." It neglects humanity and assumes a perfection of belief, it is itself attempting to proclaim a perfection of truth that does not exist. Even if you imagine all of what he states, the "world would be at peace" portion is utter nonsense. Even if people all believed like he does, the world would not be at peace because people would still be people.
Dixie - In Memoriam
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Correct! The articulation by Jefferson with the 'wall of separation' should have been more clearly defined, instead of 'church and state' he should have said 'religious dogma and government policy' and it would have conveyed a more accurate statement. The concerns of the Danbury Baptists was not that religious people might unduly influence government, it was that government might have the power to unduly influence religion. After the King of England, they were very reluctant to give that power to a central government, and religious freedom was of paramount importance to virtually every American. The proverbial "wall" was erected to protect religion from state, but in recent years, we have construed it to mean we are supposed to protect the state from religion, insulate the state from any religion, cleanse any indication of religion within the state... this was never the intent of the Founding Fathers, and flies in the face of the very principles we're founded upon.
BTW - It isn't that I dislike the song. It is one of the first songs I learned to play on the piano once I could read music and had big enough hands to stretch the full range of the song. I like the song. I just think it is utter inanity to take it as a form of Truth. It isn't, it's silly nonsense, it has equal relevance to the real world as "Yellow Submarine" or "I Wanna Be a Cowboy" do.
Kind of a stretch to reduce it to "silly nonsense" on a scale of Yellow Submarine. To me, it's kind of encouraging an exercise of simply imagining a world that isn't reigned in & dictated by some of the current structures we have in place, whether through religion, gov't, or just peer acceptance. Sure, the "someday" phrasing in it is utopian, but the overall message to me is more one of just providing a starting point for a better world - not necessarily one of his making, but a better one than what we have. And that starting point is just picturing a different place....
Dixie - In Memoriam
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No it certainly didn't repeal the 1st Amendment, FOOL!