Iraq in a Civil War? Yes or no?
- Thread starter Care4all
- Start date
I believe that limiting the power of the terrorist organizations has created a power gap which is now being filled by warring factions within the nation...
In other words, the US has been successful in harming the terrorist groups to the point where they no longer control the members who are entering and working for internal groups now....
In other words, the US has been successful in harming the terrorist groups to the point where they no longer control the members who are entering and working for internal groups now....
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
You are combining two different things and trying to ask a logical question about one of them. alQaeda is certainly present in Iraq, and we are certainly being attacked by them, as well as the Iraqi security forces and the Iraqi people. alQaeda has clearly fomented civil dis-rest between the S&S, in hopes of sparking an all-out civil war. There is no doubt, they want it to be a civil war, they hope it will turn into a civil war, and they will do everything they can, to make it appear it's a civil war.
Is it an actual "civil war"? That is a difficult question to answer. In 1963, was America in a "racial war" with the blacks, or was the government at war with the Black Panthers? Certainly, the Black Panthers were inciting a racial war, and hoped it would turn into a full-fledged war, and even spoke of it in terms of an ongoing war at the time. But was it actually a "war" or was it turmoil? People did die... war-like strategies were used... the US military (National Guard) was called up... did that make it a "war"? I suppose, to a peacenik pinhead like yourself, it WAS indeed a war.
The Sunni and Shiia Muslims have always had opposing views within the religion... kind of like Catholics and Baptists in the Christian religion, only to a worse degree. It's important to remember, these are just two of about 180 "tribes" of Muslims, in Iraq. They happen to be the two most dominant, which is why they are of importance. If Iraq were comprised solely of S&S Muslims, and that included everyone, then a civil war would probably be inevitable. As it stands, there are not as many radicals in Iraq (because of the secular nature of Saddam's regime) as there are, peace-loving Muslims, who just want the violence to stop, and look forward to a vibrant national future. Yes, there are a large percentage of pissed off people in Iraq, and they have no intention of letting it go, someone has to die. So, this is our problem... we have over half the country, struggling along with a new government, constitution, elections, etc... and we have a couple of minority radical groups, which do comprise a substantial number of the population, vehemently opposed to one another and being egged on by alQaeda and Iran, and the Islamofascist movement. The question is... what do we do about it?
Some pinheads seem to think, pulling out of Iraq is the answer! That.... somehow.... as soon as we leave, daisies will sprout up from the desert, and little Iraqi kids will all start flying kites under beautiful blue skies, and all the terrorism would stop, because it would be such a beautiful place without US troops occupying it. I don't see it like that. I think it's the worst possible thing we could ever do, at this point, and would sent the worst possible message to the people of Iraq, who put their faith in us once again, only to be sold out and abandoned. I think it would also be the worst message we could send to other Muslim countries like Pakistan, Sudan, Jordan, Egypt... who have been showing us cooperative trust in the war on terror.
If we leave Iraq, there will be a bloodbath. Mark my words. Thousands of innocent people will die. In the vacuum created, and with the weakened state of both the Sunni and Shiia factions, the radicals will assume complete control of the region. This is what they hope for, this is what they seek. This is why we must not leave until the nation is secure and stable, and any suggestion of doing this prematurely, is foolish and dangerous.
IN truth there are likely two wars occuring in Iraq today.
One is caused by the power vaccume created when the government was dismantled, where a new one has not yet evolved. This is the "Civil War".
The other is caused by Al Queda in Iraq. They came flooding into Iraq when Bush invaded.
Now if the question is, which war is more prevelant today... Id say the civil one.. but I am not sure.
What I do know is that there are currently two wars in Iraq both against the United States both of whitch the other side has the upper hand.
Al Queda wanted this fight and they got it. We solidly beat them in Afganistan.... they needed this situation in Iraq to show the world they had some ability left after Afganistan... They got it!
One is caused by the power vaccume created when the government was dismantled, where a new one has not yet evolved. This is the "Civil War".
The other is caused by Al Queda in Iraq. They came flooding into Iraq when Bush invaded.
Now if the question is, which war is more prevelant today... Id say the civil one.. but I am not sure.
What I do know is that there are currently two wars in Iraq both against the United States both of whitch the other side has the upper hand.
Al Queda wanted this fight and they got it. We solidly beat them in Afganistan.... they needed this situation in Iraq to show the world they had some ability left after Afganistan... They got it!
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
No, I am the one articulating that it's complicated. So far, Republicans seem to be the only ones with a viable solution, I am still waiting to hear one from Democrats. You don't have to be a Republican to understand what the right thing to do is, you just have to examine the situation and use some common sense. Unfortunately, that isn't a Democratic strong point.
What I seem to keep hearing from you, doesn't make any sense, and seems to be oblivious to the problem and willing to just ignore it completely. Give me a plan that doesn't include America sticking its head in the sand and ignoring the threat of Radical Islam! I'll listen! As long as you want to act like there isn't a problem, that we are not under a threat, and that we just need to pull out of the middle east and stop supporting Israel and Bush, I can't find logic in what you say.
Afganistan would be in the bag by now had it not been for Iraq. Al Queda was defeated and would have had 0 support had it not been for Iraq. AlQUeda was dead on the street till Iraq.
uscitizen
Villified User
Still waiting on the democrats soloution to clean up the mess you and your republicans made ? The party of personal responsibility needs to clean up their own mess. Instead of whining, well you don't have a souloution either. Well some of us did. DO NOT INVADE IRAQ! But you did so now it is your mess.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
alQaeda was in Iraq long before we invaded. Stop lying about it! 'The Insurgency' is comprised of several elements, mostly radical Muslim jihadists, whether they are "alQaeda" or not, the former Baath party loyalists, who were like the "mob bosses" under Saddam, and no longer have any power in Iraq, and the few disaffected brainwashed youth they can rustle out of the rafters of the general population of Iraq. The vast majority of Iraq, is not supportive of this group, and will eventually reduce them to a menace. I doubt they will ever be completely rid of them.
We are not technically fighting a war at this time. There are two armies in the country, and they are on the same side. In effect, this is the aftermath of a war, but since it's not completely over, you can't call it that right now.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
Well, you can say this all you want to, it doesn't answer the question, does it?
"We should have never gone!" is NOT a solution!
I think you are wrong about that, I totally disagree with you on that, I have stated hundreds of times, exactly why I feel that way... you have done the same with me... this is not answering the question and solving the problem, this is not finding a solution or acting rationally, it's just rehashing an argument that is no longer relevant. We disagree on Iraq, we alway will! Now... what do we do about our current situation in Iraq? Either you have answers and solutions, or you don't! Present them, or shut the fuck up! Not going into Iraq, is no longer an option! We are there, we've been there, we've defeated Saddam, we've replaced his tyrant regime with the first Arab democracy... now what? You want to give it up and admit we were stupid and wrong? What? You want to re-install Saddam? Please??? Tell me what you want to do here?
The problem is, you don't have an answer! You just have that stupid look on your face, like you don't have a clue! You'll go back into your bag of insults, to throw some more shit at Bush or Rumsfeld, or me or neocons, because all you have is hatred and vile. You damn sure don't have solutions!