Is agnosticism a cop-out?

Neoclitorus said:
why couldn't someone not care about God existing?
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Agree. Of course atheists care if gods exist. Because of the clear lack of evidence. they just don't believe gods exist, particularly those manufactured by man,

I'm an atheist and I would LOVE for the Christian god to exist and for all the stories about it to be true. I'd love to know that I get to exist for eternity, floating in cloudy heavens and won't just rot in a box when I die.

I'd prefer that the Muslim god exists because, you know.... 70+ virgins.

It's no wonder Islam is the fastest growing religion. Their marketing is considerably better.
 
ZenMode said:
Agree. Of course atheists care if gods exist.
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Nope. Atheists don't care whether any god or gods exist or not.
ZenMode said:
Because of the clear lack of evidence. they just don't believe gods exist, particularly those manufactured by man,
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There IS evidence a god or gods exist. There is also evidence that they don't exist.
ZenMode said:
I'm an atheist and I would LOVE for the Christian god to exist and for all the stories about it to be true. I'd love to know that I get to exist for eternity, floating in cloudy heavens and won't just rot in a box when I die.
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You are not an atheist.
ZenMode said:
I'd prefer that the Muslim god exists because, you know.... 70+ virgins.

It's no wonder Islam is the fastest growing religion. Their marketing is considerably better.
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Guess you never studied Islam.
 
Into the Night said:
Nope. Atheists don't care whether any god or gods exist or not.

There IS evidence a god or gods exist. There is also evidence that they don't exist.

You are not an atheist.

Guess you never studied Islam.
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"You are not an atheist."

You don't understand what it means to be atheist. Being atheist means I don't believe in gods. That isn't the same as saying "There are no gods".
 
ZenMode said:
"You are not an atheist."

You don't understand what it means to be atheist. Being atheist means I don't believe in gods. That isn't the same as saying "There are no gods".
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Yes it is. Word games won't work, Void.
You are not an atheist.

'Atheist' means 'no religion'. An atheist doesn't care whether any god or gods exist or not.

You just stated you belong to the Church of No God, a fundamentalist style religion.
 
Into the Night said:
Yes it is. Word games won't work, Void.
You are not an atheist.

'Atheist' means 'no religion'. An atheist doesn't care whether any god or gods exist or not.

You just stated you belong to the Church of No God, a fundamentalist style religion.
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I'm going to save both of us time and tell you how this is going to go down.....

You, in your continuing mission to troll while looking as idiotic as possible, pretend a word has a different mean than what is well established.

I post multiple links showing the well established definition of the word you are pretending to redefine.

You, in your continuing mission to look as idiotic as possible, come back with something really dumb like 'Dictionaries don't define words'.

I point out how idiotic you are and go on my way.

There... saved us both some time. Sorry I'm not participating in your daily jerk off session. You'll have to get someone else to help you.
 
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IBDaMann said:
Sure. Agnosticism is a position on what is knowable and makes no statement about what is believed or what ideas spark your interest.

To get a firm handle on the concept, you have to distinguish between "what you believe" and "what you know," ... and then you must convert the "what you know" into an analysis of "what can be known" and "what is knowable."

Example. You park your car in slot 24C and you enter a building to attend a conference. Once you are inside, you continue to believe that your car remains in slot 24C. At this point, this is your belief because somebody might have stolen your car, your brakes may have given out causing your car to roll out of its space, your car might have been towed for having been illegally parked, etc. You begin to discuss with another conference goer whether the status of cars out in the parking structure can actually be known. At first, you are agnostic on this point because the cars simply cannot be seen through concrete and steel; however, the other guy mentions that other parking structures have surveillance cameras that allow the cars to be viewed by the security desk, and based on that, you change your mind on the matter, i.e. you cease to be agnostic because your new position is that the status of cars in the structure can be known. A third individual then mentions that you shouldn't be so hasty. The security monitors require faith that feed is live from the camera, and not a video recording of the day prior. You then revert back to being agnostic on the idea, now thinking that car status is actually unknowable.

This is an important distinction because if you know that your car is just fine in slot 24C, then there is no longer any issue of your belief on the matter. Only when you don't know ... do your beliefs come into play. If an issue is not knowable, i.e. your position is one of agnosticism, you are saying that it is relegated entirely to being a matter of faith/belief.

Let's apply this to current events.

Global Warming and Climate Change are religions that are rooted in the fallacy that such faith/beliefs are actually knowledge/wisdom that is known, not merely believed, by virtue of dishonestly being claimed to be settled science.

Don't be afraid to come to me with the hard stuff.
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you obsession with climate change is boring
 
IBDaMann said:
Sure. Agnosticism is a position on what is knowable and makes no statement about what is believed or what ideas spark your interest.

To get a firm handle on the concept, you have to distinguish between "what you believe" and "what you know," ... and then you must convert the "what you know" into an analysis of "what can be known" and "what is knowable."

Example. You park your car in slot 24C and you enter a building to attend a conference. Once you are inside, you continue to believe that your car remains in slot 24C. At this point, this is your belief because somebody might have stolen your car, your brakes may have given out causing your car to roll out of its space, your car might have been towed for having been illegally parked, etc. You begin to discuss with another conference goer whether the status of cars out in the parking structure can actually be known. At first, you are agnostic on this point because the cars simply cannot be seen through concrete and steel; however, the other guy mentions that other parking structures have surveillance cameras that allow the cars to be viewed by the security desk, and based on that, you change your mind on the matter, i.e. you cease to be agnostic because your new position is that the status of cars in the structure can be known. A third individual then mentions that you shouldn't be so hasty. The security monitors require faith that feed is live from the camera, and not a video recording of the day prior. You then revert back to being agnostic on the idea, now thinking that car status is actually unknowable.

This is an important distinction because if you know that your car is just fine in slot 24C, then there is no longer any issue of your belief on the matter. Only when you don't know ... do your beliefs come into play. If an issue is not knowable, i.e. your position is one of agnosticism, you are saying that it is relegated entirely to being a matter of faith/belief.

Let's apply this to current events.

Global Warming and Climate Change are religions that are rooted in the fallacy that such faith/beliefs are actually knowledge/wisdom that is known, not merely believed, by virtue of dishonestly being claimed to be settled science.

Don't be afraid to come to me with the hard stuff.
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Clearly the context of agnosticism is religion. You are lost.
 
Into the Night said:
Atheists don't care whether a god or gods exist or not.
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An atheist can care about such matters. I care enough to engage in conversations. It all comes down to whether or not I am ultimately convinced of a particular theism ... and in my case, I have not yet been convinced of any, but I always learn something from each such discussion. In fact, Christians have been singularly helpful in helping me refine my Marxism radar, as an example. Discussions on Biblical teachings usually give me new and interesting contemporary applications for parables and stories, as another example.

Theistic discussions always have a draw because, by their very nature, they reside at the far end of the "importance" spectrum which always hold humanity's curiosity, so it really isn't accurate to say that atheists don't care about such things; they simply have not yet been convinced ... but that does not say anything about what tomorrow will bring.

It's the Marxists and other secular religionists' ... who disingenuously claim to be "atheists" ... who simply refuse to be convinced of any competing theology. Atheists have no existing theism to be threatened, and thus have no motivation to refuse to consider new information. Warmizombies, however, need to lash out in irrational defiance to protect their Climate Change theism.

Also, another key point is that atheists do not hold the belief that there are no deities. As such, you won't find any actual atheists claiming that you should believe that there are no deities. Atheists don't have any theism to impose onto anyone else. If someone is telling you that you should believe that the earth's average equilibrium temperature is somehow increasing, he's not an atheist.

Into the Night said:
Atheism is not a religion.
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It really is this simple. How do rational adults get this wrong?
 
ZenMode said:
you'll have to take it up with Into the Night. You two "definition creators" can believe whatever you want.
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Nope. It appears that you are the one who needs a time machine so you can take up the matter with the ancient Greeks. The Greek prefix "a" means "lack of."

apolitical - lack of any political component
asexual - lack of any sexual nature
amoral - lack of any morality position
asynchronous - lack of any synchronicity
atheistic - lacking any theism
atypical - lacking typicalness, i.e. not typical
amorphous - lacking form

Of course, you deny all this, explaining your constant confusion.
 
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