Is he right?

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SmarterThanYou said:
try it from the other end. if you need to defend yourself from a criminal cop.
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At that point you're pretty much in a "Civil War" type situation. Such a choice doesn't change that they too have a right to protect their lives. If you pull a gun on them, they have a right to protect themselves. That they have training, and the power of the judiciary doesn't change the fact that they have a right to protect their life. Understanding that, and realizing that the cops are not going to "lose" a fight, pulling a weapon on them openly brandishing it, refusing to drop it when told to... You are going to get shot.

You can fight that reality, but if you choose to do it by standing in a ring of cops and not dropping your weapon it is unlikely you will survive that choice.
 
Damocles said:
At that point you're pretty much in a "Civil War" type situation. Such a choice doesn't change that they too have a right to protect their lives. If you pull a gun on them, they have a right to protect themselves. That they have training, and the power of the judiciary doesn't change the fact that they have a right to protect their life. Understanding that, and realizing that the cops are not going to "lose" a fight, pulling a weapon on them openly brandishing it, refusing to drop it when told to... You are going to get shot.

You can fight that reality, but if you choose to do it by standing in a ring of cops and not dropping your weapon it is unlikely you will survive that choice.
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congratulations, you're feeding the beast and ensuring that not only will it not starve, it will grow.
 
Damocles said:
At that point you're pretty much in a "Civil War" type situation. Such a choice doesn't change that they too have a right to protect their lives. If you pull a gun on them, they have a right to protect themselves. That they have training, and the power of the judiciary doesn't change the fact that they have a right to protect their life. Understanding that, and realizing that the cops are not going to "lose" a fight, pulling a weapon on them openly brandishing it, refusing to drop it when told to... You are going to get shot. You can fight that reality, but if you choose to do it by standing in a ring of cops and not dropping your weapon it is unlikely you will survive that choice.
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Apparently SmarterThanFew hasn't put his theory to the test...LOL.
 
SmarterThanYou said:
congratulations, you're feeding the beast and ensuring that not only will it not starve, it will grow.
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Predicting an outcome doesn't "feed" anything.

If telling you what will happen if you do that is "feeding the beast" reading about places in an Encyclopedia is the same thing as traveling.

Either you can maintain a vision of what you want, or you can hold onto reality. Do you think you would survive brandishing a weapon in a ring of cops, pointing it at them, and refusing to put it down?
 
Damocles said:
Predicting an outcome doesn't "feed" anything.

If telling you what will happen if you do that is "feeding the beast" reading about places in an Encyclopedia is the same thing as traveling.

Either you can maintain a vision of what you want, or you can hold onto reality. Do you think you would survive brandishing a weapon in a ring of cops, pointing it at them, and refusing to put it down?
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purely at random, of course not. With that thought in mind, are you excusing instances like the murder of Jose Guerena? how about sal culosi?

http://www.cato.org/raidmap/

go through any of the botched raids on that map. how many UNARMED innocents are dead because we've promoted the rationale that government must have a monopoly of force?
 
SmarterThanYou said:
purely at random, of course not. With that thought in mind, are you excusing instances like the murder of Jose Guerena? how about sal culosi?

http://www.cato.org/raidmap/
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We are speaking of a specific situation where one person held students and a teacher in a classroom at gunpoint, then refused to put down the weapon. There was nothing there to give them any idea it was anything other than a firearm. You know I disagree when they kill the unarmed. Say, that poor dude on the subway stop...

go through any of the botched raids on that map. how many UNARMED innocents are dead because we've promoted the rationale that government must have a monopoly of force?
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I do not promote that. However, it is flat preposterous to say that somebody pointing a gun at police and refusing to drop it should have more time to take better aim and that the cops should do nothing until the gun is fired. It's just not even close to realistic expectation.
 
Damocles said:
We are speaking of a specific situation where one person held students and a teacher in a classroom at gunpoint, then refused to put down the weapon. There was nothing there to give them any idea it was anything other than a firearm. You know I disagree when they kill the unarmed. Say, that poor dude on the subway stop...



I do not promote that. However, it is flat preposterous to say that somebody pointing a gun at police and refusing to drop it should have more time to take better aim and that the cops should do nothing until the gun is fired. It's just not even close to realistic expectation.
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as i answered in the other thread, i'm not saying that police don't have a right to defend themselves, just that they should be held to the same standards of reasonableness that you or I would.
 
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