is it time to exchange the electoral college for the popular vote

is it time to exchange the electoral college for the popular vote


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http://www.publicmapping.org/resour...census-statistics#TOC-Congressional-Districts

Never mind... found it... and it makes you claims look utterly foolish.

Take a look at the two smallest districts by voting age population and total population... they are significantly above the average for minority voting. Somehow I doubt those are rural districts Mutt.

The remaining districts are pretty damn close in voting population and total population. So you are completely misinformed.
 
Link us up to the population by district in OH... Because the last time you said that, i showed u data on the pop in each district and u were wrong
You did? Dude. Ohio has a poulation of 11.5 million people. Cleveland, Cincinnati and Columbus metropolitan regions represent around 6 million alone. Then you have the Dayton Region, Akron/Canton region and the Toledo Region. Those represent nearly 1.5 million more. Those regions only account for 7 congressional districts out of our 18. That's almost 2/3rd of the poulation in our State recieving less than 40% of the representation.
 
You did? Dude. Ohio has a poulation of 11.5 million people. Cleveland, Cincinnati and Columbus metropolitan regions represent around 6 million alone. Then you have the Dayton Region, Akron/Canton region and the Toledo Region. Those represent nearly 1.5 million more. Those regions only account for 7 congressional districts out of our 18. That's almost 2/3rd of the poulation in our State recieving less than 40% of the representation.

Dude... I posted the link from the Ohio Census Data. It shows the population by district.

Just SAYING it over and over again doesn't make it true. I showed you data supporting what I said. Show us the data source you are using.
 
http://www.publicmapping.org/resour...census-statistics#TOC-Congressional-Districts

Never mind... found it... and it makes you claims look utterly foolish.

Take a look at the two smallest districts by voting age population and total population... they are significantly above the average for minority voting. Somehow I doubt those are rural districts Mutt.

The remaining districts are pretty damn close in voting population and total population. So you are completely misinformed.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio's_12th_congressional_district



Ohio's 12th congressional district is represented by Republican (GOP) Representative Patrick J. Tiberi. The district includes communities north and east of Columbus including Zanesville, Mansfield and Dublin.

From 2003 to 2013 the district included the heavily African-American part of Ohio's capital city, Columbus, Ohio along with its northern suburbs, including Westerville, Ohio.

Historically it has been a safe seat for the GOP. Since 1920, it has been held by the GOP except for an eight-year stretch in the 1930s and a two-year term in 1980 where the Democratic Party held the seat; in both instances the Democratic incumbent was later defeated by a GOP politician. However, in the 2004 presidential election George W. Bush narrowly won the district against John Kerry, 51% to 49%.[1] In the 2008 presidential election, Democratic candidate Barack Obama won the 12th district by a margin of 53% to 46%.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio%27s_12th_congressional_district



Ohio's 12th congressional district is represented by Republican (GOP) Representative Patrick J. Tiberi. The district includes communities north and east of Columbus including Zanesville, Mansfield and Dublin.

From 2003 to 2013 the district included the heavily African-American part of Ohio's capital city, Columbus, Ohio along with its northern suburbs, including Westerville, Ohio.

Historically it has been a safe seat for the GOP. Since 1920, it has been held by the GOP except for an eight-year stretch in the 1930s and a two-year term in 1980 where the Democratic Party held the seat; in both instances the Democratic incumbent was later defeated by a GOP politician. However, in the 2004 presidential election George W. Bush narrowly won the district against John Kerry, 51% to 49%.[1] In the 2008 presidential election, Democratic candidate Barack Obama won the 12th district by a margin of 53% to 46%.

Your point?
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio's_12th_congressional_district



Ohio's 12th congressional district is represented by Republican (GOP) Representative Patrick J. Tiberi. The district includes communities north and east of Columbus including Zanesville, Mansfield and Dublin.

From 2003 to 2013 the district included the heavily African-American part of Ohio's capital city, Columbus, Ohio along with its northern suburbs, including Westerville, Ohio.

Historically it has been a safe seat for the GOP. Since 1920, it has been held by the GOP except for an eight-year stretch in the 1930s and a two-year term in 1980 where the Democratic Party held the seat; in both instances the Democratic incumbent was later defeated by a GOP politician. However, in the 2004 presidential election George W. Bush narrowly won the district against John Kerry, 51% to 49%.[1] In the 2008 presidential election, Democratic candidate Barack Obama won the 12th district by a margin of 53% to 46%.
Yup. That's my district. I voted for both Tiberi and Obama.
 
I stand corrected. Rural areas are over represented in the US Senate and the Electoral college but not House elections.

How are they over represented in the electoral college? Each district is to have roughly a population of 710k. So each district has a similar number of population and typically of voters.

The states are awarded electoral votes based on the House seats they have. So again... what data are you using to suggest rural areas are over represented? As I showed you with Ohio... it is the cities (especially areas with higher numbers of minority voters) that are over represented due to have the two SMALLEST districts in Ohio.

So again Mutt... WHAT data are you looking at that supports your claim?
 
and yes, we know states with smaller populations are over represented on a population vs number of senators basis. That is why we have the House for representation based on population and why we have the Senate which is to prevent the heavily populated states from running over the more sparsely populated states.
 
Still waiting mutt...

You keep saying the same thing, i have posted the data showing you are flat wrong... Do you or do you not have data that says otherwise?
 
How are they over represented in the electoral college? Each district is to have roughly a population of 710k. So each district has a similar number of population and typically of voters.

The states are awarded electoral votes based on the House seats they have. So again... what data are you using to suggest rural areas are over represented? As I showed you with Ohio... it is the cities (especially areas with higher numbers of minority voters) that are over represented due to have the two SMALLEST districts in Ohio.

So again Mutt... WHAT data are you looking at that supports your claim?
Because duffus the #of electoral votes a state has is equal to the #of representatives +senators giving over representation to the less populated states.

For example Wyoming has a electoral vote distribution of around 400,000 people to each electoral vote where as California has around 800,000 peope to each electoral vote. So the electoral college does give disproportionate representation to rural/less populated States.


http://www.middleclasspoliticaleconomist.com/2012/05/basics-how-overrepresented-are-rural.html
http://progressivevalues.blogspot.com/2005/10/electoral-college-is-over.html
 
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and yes, we know states with smaller populations are over represented on a population vs number of senators basis. That is why we have the House for representation based on population and why we have the Senate which is to prevent the heavily populated states from running over the more sparsely populated states.
That is correct and you may have noticed I voted to keep the electoral college.....that doesn't change the fact that the elctoral college does indeed overrepresent rural/less populated States.

As for the Senate. That's the real source of disparity in our system. As you said, the founding fathers gave each State two Senators to prevent larger population STates from dominating smaller population States. But can you honestly say that our Founding fathers visualised the huge population disparities of different regions? This is where rural and less populated States are greatly over represented in our System.

I don't have that much of a problem with the Electoral college as it does provide extra representation. It has had it's consequences as 3 times Republicans have won the electoral college while losing the popular vote because rura/less populated regions are over represented. That is obviosly undemocratic and 2 of those Republican Presidents elected under those circumstances turned out to be two of the worst in our nations history.

And while you do have a point that the founding fathers provided for 2 Senators for each State to assure that States with larger/urban populations do not, as you said "Run Roughshod" over the less populated/rural States, as I said they did not envision the current population disparity where the exact opposite has occurred. We have a situation where the rural/less populated States are running roughshod over the larger more populated States and the Cities, the most economicaly productive regions in our nation are the ones that get shafted and end up paying for this disparity (though that's certainly not unique to the USA).

What really is needed isn't reform to the Electoral College. We need Senate Reform. Look at the Senate, our nations most undemocratic institutions history. For example, a minority of Senators representing between 10 to 15% of the population held up equal rights laws after WWII for nearly 20 years.

So maybe it's time we discussed Senate reform so that the rural States are prevented from running roughshod over the larger more populous States?

Here's what I would suggest. A constitutional ammendment that would apportion Senators as follows.

States with less than a million in population recieve 1 Senator.
States with populations between 1 and 10 million recieve 2 Senators.
States with populations over 10 million recieve 3 Senators.

That way the intent of our founding fathers is preserved and this rediculous situation where a minority in the less populated regions stall our nations economic and political progress is ended.

Alternatively, I am also for a constitutional ammendment that outlaws the filibuster. Which permits a minority of Senators reprenting a small minority of the population from stalling economic and political progress as has been going on for far too long.
 
Because duffus the #of electoral votes a state has is equal to the #of representatives +senators giving over representation to the less populated states.

So now you are changing your story? It is now that sparsely populated states have greater representation due to the minimum of 3 electoral votes per state (one for each member of Congress)?

So now it is NOT rural areas as you proclaimed?

For example Wyoming has a electoral vote distribution of around 400,000 people to each electoral vote where as California has around 800,000 peope to each electoral vote. So the electoral college does give disproportionate representation to rural/less populated States.

CA has about what the average is supposed to be (actually just under)... it is supposed to be about 710 per district. CA is at 677k per district per the 2010 census data. So CA is over represented.

That said... Delaware, Maine, NH, Rhode Island, Vermont... how about you tell us what theirs are? You want to pretend it is just the mountain states or 'rural' areas. You are wrong on all counts.
 
That is correct and you may have noticed I voted to keep the electoral college.....that doesn't change the fact that the elctoral college does indeed overrepresent rural/less populated States.

LMAO... NO, it does not over represent rural areas. No matter how much you keep trying to spin that crap. Yes, it does over represent the least populated states. Many of which are in the Northeast + Hawaii. You calling Hawaii, Vermont, Maine, Delaware, Rhode Island and New Hampshire 'rural' states?

As for the Senate. That's the real source of disparity in our system. As you said, the founding fathers gave each State two Senators to prevent larger population STates from dominating smaller population States. But can you honestly say that our Founding fathers visualised the huge population disparities of different regions? This is where rural and less populated States are greatly over represented in our System.

I have no idea what they visualized given that many of the states weren't even US territories when they designed the system. The Louisiana purchase was at least a decade AFTER the Senate was created. The war between TX and Mexico wasn't until 4 decades later.

So no... I doubt they knew how large this country would grow. But you know what... it doesn't matter... the design is still the same. It does not allow heavily populated areas to dominate. That is what the House is for. If you don't like it, you are free to move to one of the states that is more sparsely populated if you wish.

I don't have that much of a problem with the Electoral college as it does provide extra representation. It has had it's consequences as 3 times Republicans have won the electoral college while losing the popular vote because rura/less populated regions are over represented. That is obviosly undemocratic and 2 of those Republican Presidents elected under those circumstances turned out to be two of the worst in our nations history.

Again... NH, Maine, Delaware, RI, Vermont, Hawaii... out of those over represented states... how many are ever in danger of going Rep? NH and maybe one or two of Maines electoral votes? Yeah... so shut the fuck up about it. You pretend it is just conservative states... but it is not.

And while you do have a point that the founding fathers provided for 2 Senators for each State to assure that States with larger/urban populations do not, as you said "Run Roughshod" over the less populated/rural States, as I said they did not envision the current population disparity where the exact opposite has occurred. We have a situation where the rural/less populated States are running roughshod over the larger more populated States and the Cities, the most economicaly productive regions in our nation are the ones that get shafted and end up paying for this disparity (though that's certainly not unique to the USA).

North Dakota is one of the least populated states and one of the biggest economic producers per capita thanks to their oil. Adjust the per capita GDP per region by cost of living. You will quickly find the disparity is not what you think it is.

What really is needed isn't reform to the Electoral College. We need Senate Reform. Look at the Senate, our nations most undemocratic institutions history. For example, a minority of Senators representing between 10 to 15% of the population held up equal rights laws after WWII for nearly 20 years.

no, we do not. You want the Senate to resemble the House more closely. That is exactly what we do not need.

So maybe it's time we discussed Senate reform so that the rural States are prevented from running roughshod over the larger more populous States?

Here's what I would suggest. A constitutional ammendment that would apportion Senators as follows.

States with less than a million in population recieve 1 Senator.
States with populations between 1 and 10 million recieve 2 Senators.
States with populations over 10 million recieve 3 Senators.

That way the intent of our founding fathers is preserved and this rediculous situation where a minority in the less populated regions stall our nations economic and political progress is ended.

Again, there are just as many sparsely populated states in the NE as there are anywhere. But you want to ignore that because you want to continue looking down on 'other' regions.
 
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