Is Rudy really Insane?

C

Cypress

Well-known member
MORE RUDY....James Joyner is a conservative, so I'd expect him to be at least a little more sympathetic toward Rudy Giuliani's recent foreign policy manifesto than me. But no.

The former Giuliani fan, after watching America's Mayor in action for a few months, has changed his opinion slightly:

I must concur in Matt Yglesias' judgment: "this man is batshit insane."

....The more I hear and read, though, the more I think Giuliani is either a charlatan or a simpleton. Either he's lying to us and we therefore have no idea what his foreign policy will be or, worse, this is what he really thinks.

....Essentially, he wants to massively increase [the] defense budget....topple every regime we don't like....wipe out every instance of non-democratic badness....diplomatic policy that finally lives up to the caricature of Bush policy....win the hearts and minds of Muslims everywhere by allying ourselves even more closely with the Israelis....spend billions on surveillance systems....learn the one lesson from Vietnam that no serious student of that war has learned: We were THIS CLOSE to winning!

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/ar...nis_dangerously_stupid_foreign_policy_vision/
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http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2007_08/011876.php[/quote]



I've been noticing this too. At least, from the debates I've seen Rudy in. It seems he wants to be like Bush on steroids. He wants to do what bush did, only more aggresively, because (in Rudy's mind) that's where bush fucked up.
 
I don't know how this message sells in a general election: "I'm gonna be like bush, only like Bush on steroids"

How the fuck does that sell to anyone, besides the GOP base?
 
I really liked Rudy as Mayor of NYC, but man, when I hear him talk about terror, I cringe.

His message is basically "more of the same, and then some." It's all of the ol' "they hate us for our freedoms" crap. It completely disqualifies him, imo...
 
Cypress said:
I don't know how this message sells in a general election: "I'm gonna be like bush, only like Bush on steroids"

How the fuck does that sell to anyone, besides the GOP base?
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He needs to sell the GOP base though, and he is overselling in order to make up for what is perceived to be his shortcomings because he doesn't want to torture and murder gays, and shoot abortion providers.

I don't think he is quite as insane as he is coming off as, as far as attacking other countries goes. I do believe he has serious facist tendencies so the surveillance stuff, and anything in that vein, he is totally serious about. He is dangerous, to our civil rights. And dangerous too on foreign policy, I'm not saying he isn't, just that he is not quite as batshit crazy on that as he is making it appear.

Just my hunch, I could be wrong though.
 
Darla said:
He needs to sell the GOP base though, and he is overselling in order to make up for what is perceived to be his shortcomings because he doesn't want to torture and murder gays, and shoot abortion providers.

I don't think he is quite as insane as he is coming off as, as far as attacking other countries goes. I do believe he has serious facist tendencies so the surveillance stuff, and anything in that vein, he is totally serious about. He is dangerous, to our civil rights. And dangerous too on foreign policy, I'm not saying he isn't, just that he is not quite as batshit crazy on that as he is making it appear.

Just my hunch, I could be wrong though.
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You're probably right. But, it also makes me think the GOP base hasn't learned a single thing about their mistakes - if they want a Bush on steroids, when it comes to foreign policy.

Why, just the other day some GOP poster told me that the GOP was getting more and more anti-iraq war! lol
 
Truthfully I haven't been paying attention to Guiliani's campaign. I don't think he'll be a contender past the first 4 primaries. But I agree with the author. He is bat$hit crazy if this is what he really thinks.
 
Of course he's fudging his views on an important issue like foreign policy and terrorism in an attempt to win...that's the virtual definition of a demagogue!

He thinks the GOP base is made up of idiots who will vote for him because they're scared of terrorism. I think we're all nervous about the media pre-electing a nominee like him, but the more Republicans I talk to, the more I realize that with enough hard work, we don't have to settle for that.

The people I'm talking to on the ground, of course they care about terrorism and the war, etc. But this election isn't going to be 2002, or 2004, and Republicans certainly don't want it to be another 2006.

There are a whole slew of issues very close to their hearts and if they intend to make any progress on them they are going to have to conform to a foreign policy that the American people can endorse in electing them.

Only Ron Paul is offering that.

And if they don't change that most important piece, then they deserve to lose.
 
thompson will be the candidate trotted out to save the republican party.
at least that is my expectation.
sorry but I don't think paul will be going anywhere.
 
uscitizen said:
thompson will be the candidate trotted out to save the republican party.
at least that is my expectation.
sorry but I don't think paul will be going anywhere.
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Thompson IS the candidate being trotted out to save the Republican Party. That's because traditional Republican voters are scared shitless of having the "Top Tier" candidates representing their party. They know they'll get spanked by Hillary because the base won't turn out.

Despite what the media or Republican Party leaders will tell you, regular Republicans don't want Giuliani or Romney and especially not McCain. They don't think any of them are Conservative.

But that doesn't mean Thompson is a virtual shoe-in like Hillary is for her nomination. He has a lot of work to do explain to people why he wants to be President and what he would do different.

And so do all the candidates. You seem to think that who becomes President is a matter of people randomly showing up on election day and deciding the winner based on their media hype. There's a lot more work that goes into shaping the debate and influencing people's choices.

The race for the Republican nomination is just beginning and it could go a number of ways at the moment.
 
Cypress said:
I don't know how this message sells in a general election: "I'm gonna be like bush, only like Bush on steroids"

How the fuck does that sell to anyone, besides the GOP base?
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No, he wants to be like Reagan . . . and that's far worse, for many reasons. Not least among them being that it's -- ironically -- more palatable to the American people just now.
 
LadyT said:
Truthfully I haven't been paying attention to Guiliani's campaign. I don't think he'll be a contender past the first 4 primaries. But I agree with the author. He is bat$hit crazy if this is what he really thinks.
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Up until recently, I've had the same opinion about his chances. Darla and I've almost puked on one another (Eeew!) in our shared hilarity at the pathetic Julie campaign.

I'm not laughing anymore.

Yes, he's bat$hit crazy. That's been apparent for some time. So too were J. Edgar Hoover and Joe McCarthy though. We have a frightening ability to elect and/or support bat$hit crazy f*ckers when we lose our collective mind.

I think we all need to start paying attention. If Julie is nominated by the Repukes, he has a genuinely realistic chance of becoming president. I made the mistake of not taking Dubya seriously. I'm not going to make that same mistake again.

:shock:
 
OrnotBitwise said:
No, he wants to be like Reagan . . . and that's far worse, for many reasons. Not least among them being that it's -- ironically -- more palatable to the American people just now.
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yeah many sucke.. err Americans think Regan was the best thing since sliced bread.
 
OrnotBitwise said:
Yah. Makes me want to smack 'em all upside the head. With an axe. Let some light into their benighted brains.
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The second time tonight I have commented on this phenomena.

Joking about killing Americans is not nearly as cool as you think it makes you seem.
 
Damocles said:
The second time tonight I have commented on this phenomena.

Joking about killing Americans is not nearly as cool as you think it makes you seem.
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:rolleyes:

Damo, I care for neither "cool" nor whether anyone perceives me as possessing it. As for joking about killing Americans, that's far better than joking about killing Arabs or Mexicans or Chinese. At least I'm picking on my own rather than others.

Yep, there are indeed Americans whom I believe could best serve the species by dropping dead and taking their deformed spawn with them. Big deal. There are lots of Americans who feel the same way about me. Doesn't bother me in the least.
 
OrnotBitwise said:
:rolleyes:

Damo, I care for neither "cool" nor whether anyone perceives me as possessing it. As for joking about killing Americans, that's far better than joking about killing Arabs or Mexicans or Chinese. At least I'm picking on my own rather than others.

Yep, there are indeed Americans whom I believe could best serve the species by dropping dead and taking their deformed spawn with them. Big deal. There are lots of Americans who feel the same way about me. Doesn't bother me in the least.
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Joking about killing anybody is not right, joking about killing those you know because you disagree, even worse.

I don't know how to say it better than that.

I don't know how often I have heard somebody say, "It is wrong to call me unamerican because I dislike the policy of the Administration." How is it better to say, "You should be dead because I disagree with your political view!"?

I would mention that joking about killing Arabs too. But it is especially true about killing your neighbor because of political disagreement. Each time you dismiss the humanity of another because of disagreement you lose a bit of yourself in the process.

All that you are is a result of what you have thought, it is made up of those thoughts, from those thoughts you shape your world.
 
Damocles said:
Joking about killing anybody is not right, joking about killing those you know because you disagree, even worse.

I don't know how to say it better than that.

I don't know how often I have heard somebody say, "It is wrong to call me unamerican because I dislike the policy of the Administration." How is it better to say, "You should be dead because I disagree with your political view!"?

I would mention that joking about killing Arabs too. But it is especially true about killing your neighbor because of political disagreement. Each time you dismiss the humanity of another because of disagreement you lose a bit of yourself in the process.

All that you are is a result of what you have thought, it is made up of those thoughts, from those thoughts you shape your world.
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This is another of those things about which we're just going to have to disagree.

First, I think it's far worse to denigrate the outsider, the foreigner, than it is to denigrate the neighbor whom you might actually know. I despise all forms of nationalism, especially reflexive home-boy-ism. I'd far rather hear an American bitch about stupid, destructive Americans than about allegedly stupid, destructive Arabs or Persians.

Secondly, feelings are just feelings. Yes, I want to kill most evangelicals -- for example -- but that doesn't mean I'm going to do it. I know perfectly well that acting on these desires would be unpardonably immoral. Okay, so I hate them. Big deal. They pretty much hate me too. Frankly, I can't get too worked up about it.
 
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