APP - It looks like walls work

Walls, fences, landmines, "no-go" zones with remote controlled killer drones flown by teenagers playing on their home computers, whatever. Just get it done.
 
Think of how many millions of illegals have come into this country because the globalist RINO republicans sold us out on this issue
 
Think of how many millions of illegals have come into this country because the globalist RINO republicans sold us out on this issue

No doubt. It is one of the reasons Trump won. People of all stripes and color have had enough of the globalists. For many it is no longer about Democrat or Republican or Conservative of Liberal. It is about preserving our country.

You can go back in the nineties and see the democrat party saying the same things about illegal immigration that Trump is saying today. But, somewhere along the line they realized that they could tap into them as voters.

It has been a cheap alliance of the RINOs and democrat party to undermine our country and turn it into a third world country. Unfortunately, too many JPP liberals are binary thinkers and can't see what is right in front of them. I thought the 2016 would have taught them a lesson, but I was wrong.
 
What we need in Texas is a sea wall, not a Rio Grande wall. The billions of dollars Trump wants to stick taxpayers with because Mexico flipped him off on his silly wall is going to have to go to the hundreds of thousands of Texas citizens who have lost their homes, cars, businesses etc. Time to get real, folks!
 
What we need in Texas is a sea wall, not a Rio Grande wall. The billions of dollars Trump wants to stick taxpayers with because Mexico flipped him off on his silly wall is going to have to go to the hundreds of thousands of Texas citizens who have lost their homes, cars, businesses etc. Time to get real, folks!

Why not just move inland?
 
Trump's wall would prevent entry by those who have no other means of crossing the border. This is a small percentage of total illegal immigration and assumes that the wall would be 100% effective in those areas where it is built. True, the construction of the wall is not likely to increase the number of illegal aliens entering the US, but to assume that it will result in a significant decrease is an act of faith, not reason. And it certainly will do nothing to assuage the demographic and cultural changes that are behind the nativism of Trump's fans. In short, the wall was a simplistic campaign gimmick. Turning the gimmick into reality is going to accomplish precious little at great expense.
 
Trump's wall would prevent entry by those who have no other means of crossing the border. This is a small percentage of total illegal immigration and assumes that the wall would be 100% effective in those areas where it is built. True, the construction of the wall is not likely to increase the number of illegal aliens entering the US, but to assume that it will result in a significant decrease is an act of faith, not reason. And it certainly will do nothing to assuage the demographic and cultural changes that are behind the nativism of Trump's fans. In short, the wall was a simplistic campaign gimmick. Turning the gimmick into reality is going to accomplish precious little at great expense.

Do you have any facts to back up your conjecture? Because walls/ fences have been used for security purposes since the beginning of time. What has changed, or is different about the actual situation, to confirm that your conjecture is true?
 
Do you have any facts to back up your conjecture? Because walls/ fences have been used for security purposes since the beginning of time. What has changed, or is different about the actual situation, to confirm that your conjecture is true?
You are correct that "walls/ fences have been used for security purposes since the beginning of time." However, like all human contrivances, they don't work perfectly and a lot of their success depends on what they are trying to keep out. Australia has a continent-wide fence to keep out rabbits that keeps out a lot of rabbits, but it doesn't keep out all the rabbits.

Humans are a lot tougher to fence out than rabbits. Israel has a wall to keep out Palestinians. It is really high and well patrolled. Palestinians don't climb over it but they get in other ways and the wall is tiny compared to the length of our desert border with Mexico. That border runs through urban areas in CA and TX where tens of thousands of people cross each day, most of them legally. There are tunnels and boat passages. If people want to get across badly enough, they will.

The fact is, illegal immigration from Mexico is already way, way down because of economic factors on both sides of the border. And the millions of latinos in this country, most of who are legal or citizens, aren't going away. Add to that the fact that our rapidly aging workforce is already running short and WASPs aren't having nearly enough babies to keep us going. Immigrants, even illegal ones are a plus to our economy.

What the alt-right doesn't like isn't the illegal status of a fraction of our immigrant population, it is the multi-cultural nature of today's American society. This especially true in places where latinos are a new and significant element. Nobody in south Texas is uptight about Mexicans. Michigan? The Carolinas? That's a different story!

It isn't just nativism that makes working class WASPs angry, they have lost income as wages have stagnated and lost their best jobs because of technology and the export of manufacturing to low wage nations under Republican "free trade." Immigrants, especially Mexican immigrants, are an easy target for their frustration. But they aren't the cause. The real cause of their declining status and income is the destruction of unions and laws which have encouraged the export of jobs. Those are Republican policies, not Democratic ones.
 
What we need in Texas is a sea wall, not a Rio Grande wall. The billions of dollars Trump wants to stick taxpayers with because Mexico flipped him off on his silly wall is going to have to go to the hundreds of thousands of Texas citizens who have lost their homes, cars, businesses etc. Time to get real, folks!

agreed.....tell those idiots to build on solid ground.......
 
agreed.....tell those idiots to build on solid ground.......
Building on solid ground is a good idea. But if the water level rises or the dam overtops, even sold ground becomes under water. The atmosphere and the oceans are now over 1 degree warmer. It doesn't sound like much but it can easily mean billions more gallons of water in an otherwise moderate seasonal storm or hurricane. It's too late to stop what has already happened, but we can slow down the rate at which we are warming and we can begin to plan ahead for changes that are going to be costly no matter what, but which can be disastrous as well if we wait any longer.
 
The atmosphere and the oceans are now over 1 degree warmer. It doesn't sound like much but it can easily mean billions more gallons of water in an otherwise moderate seasonal storm or hurricane. It's too late to stop what has already happened
sure it is......it can't stopped now any more than it could be stopped the last time it happened, 50k years ago, or all the other times before that......
 
You are correct that "walls/ fences have been used for security purposes since the beginning of time." However, like all human contrivances, they don't work perfectly and a lot of their success depends on what they are trying to keep out. Australia has a continent-wide fence to keep out rabbits that keeps out a lot of rabbits, but it doesn't keep out all the rabbits.

Humans are a lot tougher to fence out than rabbits. Israel has a wall to keep out Palestinians. It is really high and well patrolled. Palestinians don't climb over it but they get in other ways and the wall is tiny compared to the length of our desert border with Mexico. That border runs through urban areas in CA and TX where tens of thousands of people cross each day, most of them legally. There are tunnels and boat passages. If people want to get across badly enough, they will.

The fact is, illegal immigration from Mexico is already way, way down because of economic factors on both sides of the border. And the millions of latinos in this country, most of who are legal or citizens, aren't going away. Add to that the fact that our rapidly aging workforce is already running short and WASPs aren't having nearly enough babies to keep us going. Immigrants, even illegal ones are a plus to our economy.

What the alt-right doesn't like isn't the illegal status of a fraction of our immigrant population, it is the multi-cultural nature of today's American society. This especially true in places where latinos are a new and significant element. Nobody in south Texas is uptight about Mexicans. Michigan? The Carolinas? That's a different story!

It isn't just nativism that makes working class WASPs angry, they have lost income as wages have stagnated and lost their best jobs because of technology and the export of manufacturing to low wage nations under Republican "free trade." Immigrants, especially Mexican immigrants, are an easy target for their frustration. But they aren't the cause. The real cause of their declining status and income is the destruction of unions and laws which have encouraged the export of jobs. Those are Republican policies, not Democratic ones.

I'm not sure why you are bring uip alt-right and WASP, except as an attempt to derail the debate. Remember, this is APP and that is not tolerated.

No one is saying a wall is, or has to be, perfect. We have a lot of it to build but we are also a well populated, wealthy country. You've admitted that they work to keep out undesirables, so it appears that we are in agreement.
 
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