Italian scientist reproduces Shroud of Turin

Southern Man said:
Yet that's what you have done by insisting that the folks that you are arguing with view the story of Noah as direct historical interpretation. Catholics don't.
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Catholics view EVERYTHING affirmed by scripture as affirmed by God.

EVERYTHING related to Noah's Ark is just plain silly in whatever context it's viewed.
 
The Southern Man, as a devout and knowledgeable Catholic, doesn't insist that every facet of the Bible is historical scientific fact. Nor does he ridicule those who do.
 
WinterBorn said:
What he has done, is the same as I have done, and that is to ridicule those who insist that the bible is a literal history of the world. Those who demand that their views be taken into account in public schools, who demand that their views be reflected in our laws, and those who demand that their view is absolutely correct (without any evidence) fall into this same subset that I enjoy heaping with scorn.
BAC seems to feel the same way as I do.
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Indeed I do.

Good argument about teaching these fairy-tales to students.
 
CaptBillyTheKid said:
The story of Noah and his Ark was told the way all stories were told back then; Big, and grand, and unequaled by any previous tale. More than likely it was told during or shortly after a great flood (not one to destroy the world mind you but maybe something similar to Katrina) to reinforce faith amoung people, as they probably had little else BUT faith.
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This was discussed before and I suggested that "the entire world" might have meant the "entire known world of the writer", at that time.

It wasn't considered, just dismissed.
OH-WELL.
 
blackascoal said:
This pronouncement by the Catholic Church does not reflect the "thinking"/conditioning of many "believers" .. nor does it even reflect the thinking of many catholics.

It's like the struggle within the Catholic Church of wheteher to accept Noah's Ark as allegorical or as actual history.

The trap they find themselves in is that they've all been taught/conditioned to beleve that EVERYTHING taught in Scriptures is affirmed by God .. but science and REAL history have demonstrated that some of that bullshit isn't even remotely possible to be true. Religion isn't about truth or facts or history .. it's about faith, nothing more.

Ever found the bones of soldiers and horses, weapons, or chariots under the Red Sea? .. Nope, because Moses parting the Red Sea is a fairy-tale .. just as was Noah's Ark and "God's flood" was a fairy-tale .. just as the shroud is a fairy-tale .. just as seeing Mary's face in stale bread is a fairy-tale.

But history has shown .. slap God/Jesus on anything and the conditioned will sing its praises.
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Just to play devil's advocate here: :rolleyes:

Ancient civilizations that have been discovered all over the world refer to a time or times where the "world" as they new it was flooded out or burned. The "faithful" heeded the word of God or God's, and took appropriate measures to survive. I don't off hand know of any that refered to other cultures, people or nations that weren't in their geographical realm of experience. And let's not forget the physical evidence our modern day scientist reveal that much of what is now mountains and deserts were once under water (or damned near) millions of years ago.

Something happened, and the recordings that survived were religious allegories that are expected to be taken literally...

The ever popular Judeo-Christian take on the history of the world leaves out a LOT....like dinosaurs, the Cro-magnons, stuff like that. But once you sift through the muck, there are some global truths there.
 
Taichiliberal said:
Just to play devil's advocate here: :rolleyes:

Ancient civilizations that have been discovered all over the world refer to a time or times where the "world" as they new it was flooded out or burned. The "faithful" heeded the word of God or God's, and took appropriate measures to survive. I don't off hand know of any that refered to other cultures, people or nations that weren't in their geographical realm of experience. And let's not forget the physical evidence our modern day scientist reveal that much of what is now mountains and deserts were once under water (or damned near) millions of years ago.

Something happened, and the recordings that survived were religious allegories that are expected to be taken literally...

The ever popular Judeo-Christian take on the history of the world leaves out a LOT....like dinosaurs, the Cro-magnons, stuff like that. But once you sift through the muck, there are some global truths there.
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Indeed there are some truths that have been hidden, contorted, and framed to support religious doctrine, but nothing is there that cannot be found in the study of history .. without the doctoring.

Also, a lot of what's told is framed for specific audiences. Throughout Latin America and Europe, even in places like Poland, Croatia, and throughout Czech Republic, the Black Madonna is one of the most celebrated religious icons they have. People mak long pilgrimages to worship her.

THIS would not work with an American audience ...

madonna.jpg


ahh .. the baby she's holding is Jesus.

Nope, won't work in America .. so Jesus has to look like a Montana biker even though it looks nothing like the Jesus that is depicted in THE BIBLE.

For me, I like my history without the mindfuck.
 
The ever popular Judeo-Christian take on the history of the world leaves out a LOT....like dinosaurs, the Cro-magnons, stuff like that. But once you sift through the muck, there are some global truths there.


It is all explained perfectly in the Creation Mueseum in northern KY.Which was endorsed by our past Republican Governor.BTW I was taught in protestant church that Noahs tale was absolute fact.
 
blackascoal said:
Indeed there are some truths that have been hidden, contorted, and framed to support religious doctrine, but nothing is there that cannot be found in the study of history .. without the doctoring.

Also, a lot of what's told is framed for specific audiences. Throughout Latin America and Europe, even in places like Poland, Croatia, and throughout Czech Republic, the Black Madonna is one of the most celebrated religious icons they have. People mak long pilgrimages to worship her.

THIS would not work with an American audience ...

madonna.jpg


ahh .. the baby she's holding is Jesus.

Nope, won't work in America .. so Jesus has to look like a Montana biker even though it looks nothing like the Jesus that is depicted in THE BIBLE.

For me, I like my history without the mindfuck.
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Yep.....and you'd be hard pressed to get the Japanese to admit or acknowledge that those old depictions of black faced shoguns were NOT ceremonial masks!

And the schizoid relationships in Western Africa to Greece would be funny if it weren't so real.

As a black American, I find myself in a unique position to try and objectively look at everyone else's fuck ups and try to do better. As for religion, yeah I believe.....but not blindly.
 
No big deal...put your dicks back in your pants and curb your imaginations.....

The Black Madonnas are generally found in Catholic areas. The statues are mostly wooden but occasionally stone, often painted and up to 75 cm tall, generally dating from between the 11th and 15th centuries. They fall into two main groups: free-standing upright figures and seated figures on a throne. The pictures are usually icons which are Byzantine in style, often made in 13th or 14th century Italy. Their faces tend to have recognizably European features.

Most theologians and historians believe that most examples of dark coloring can be accounted for by the natural color of the wood used or by changes in color over time. They may add that a pale alabaster face was a post-medieval development. A counter-argument points to the apparently bright colors of the clothing on some images with painted black face and hands.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Madonna
 
Taichiliberal said:
Yep.....and you'd be hard pressed to get the Japanese to admit or acknowledge that those old depictions of black faced shoguns were NOT ceremonial masks!

And the schizoid relationships in Western Africa to Greece would be funny if it weren't so real.

As a black American, I find myself in a unique position to try and objectively look at everyone else's fuck ups and try to do better. As for religion, yeah I believe.....but not blindly.
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How about chopping the noses and the lips off the great Egyptian works to mask their true builders. Americans know nothing of Kemetic society.
 
bravo said:
No big deal...put your dicks back in your pants and curb your imaginations.....

The Black Madonnas are generally found in Catholic areas. The statues are mostly wooden but occasionally stone, often painted and up to 75 cm tall, generally dating from between the 11th and 15th centuries. They fall into two main groups: free-standing upright figures and seated figures on a throne. The pictures are usually icons which are Byzantine in style, often made in 13th or 14th century Italy. Their faces tend to have recognizably European features.

Most theologians and historians believe that most examples of dark coloring can be accounted for by the natural color of the wood used or by changes in color over time. They may add that a pale alabaster face was a post-medieval development. A counter-argument points to the apparently bright colors of the clothing on some images with painted black face and hands.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Madonna
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There goes our afro-centric guests theory that Jesus was black. LOL
 
blackascoal said:
.. like those waiting to find Noah's Ark.
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If the ark doesn't exist, what the hell is on Mount Ararat? There are too many eye witnesses and photographic anomalies, as well as cross-cultural traditions, for it to be a total myth. Do you also deny that Jesus Christ was a historical person?
 
blackascoal said:
How about chopping the noses and the lips off the great Egyptian works to mask their true builders. Americans know nothing of Kemetic society.
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The 10,000+ images and paintings of Egyptians isn't enough to describe them....?

You seriously think that chopping the noses and the lips off a very very few of the great Egyptian works was meant to mask their true builders ?

Are you hitting the grog a little tonight or got some bad coke or what ?
You sure as hell as thinking clearly.....get a clue
 
Tabasco said:
If the ark doesn't exist, what the hell is on Mount Ararat? There are too many eye witnesses and photographic anomalies, as well as cross-cultural traditions, for it to be a total myth. Do you also deny that Jesus Christ was a historical person?
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:lmao:
 
bravo said:
The 10,000+ images and paintings of Egyptians isn't enough to describe them....?

You seriously think that chopping the noses and the lips off a very very few of the great Egyptian works was meant to mask their true builders ?

Are you hitting the grog a little tonight or got some bad coke or what ?
You sure as hell as thinking clearly.....get a clue
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The fact that you don't understand it damn near gurantees my correctness.

You sir are the classic example of an unlearned American. If you didn't see it on TV, it can't be true.

You didn't see this on TV .. so it can't be true ..

tut8.jpg


This goes against all your programming ..

Egyp095_150pixBest_copy.jpg

When visiting Egypt today, this is what we see of The Sphinx of Giza.

Sphinx_drawing_best_cropped.jpg

This is what Vivant Denon saw in 1798 before the Sphinx was defaced.

QUICK dummy .. who built the Sphinx of Giza.

Whatever you do, don't read this article
The Black Pharaohs
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2008/02/black-pharaohs/robert-draper-text/1

Don't read this one either dummy
Nubia's Black Pharaohs
http://discovermagazine.com/2005/dec/nubia-black-pharaohs

I know, I know .. National Geographic and Discovery only have scientists and archaeologists .. no actors .. can't be true, eh?

I could go on for days, but ye of limited intelligence does not possess the capacity to understand it.

Oh, by the way .. your mother, grandpappy, and YOU are all of African descent.

I know .. your head is exploding.

:0)
 
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