It's the Economy Stupid!

D

Dixie - In Memoriam

New member
I know health care has poised itself to be the hot-button topic of the 2010 mid-terms and 2012 presidential campaigns, and certainly, the GOP stands to gain some significant ground on that issue alone. But, I don't think that will be the decisive issue come election time. I am reminded of the Clinton mantra... it's the Economy, Stupid! Clinton was a deplorable person, but one thing he understood was politics. He realized, ideological difference between left and right would always take a back seat to the economy. If the economy is in the crapper and people have no jobs, the social conservative/liberal issues do not matter to the electorate. People tend to vote their pocketbooks.

There is also the very real possibility of the middle east blowing up, or another terrorist attack, something to 'change the game' altogether... but barring some major event, the key issue heading into the mid-terms and 2012, will be the economy.

Conservatives may view this as a positive for them, since this administration appears hell-bent on doing whatever it can to undermine the economy and capitalism in general, so how could the economy possibly be "doing well" in November or in 2012? Well.... you remember that $800 billion Congress told us was needed immediately to avoid a complete economic collapse in 2008? The money John McCain suspended his campaign to go vote for? It was called a "Stimulus Bill" but it appears the bulk of the money ($600 billion) has yet to be allocated. Yes, I know they said it was needed immediately, that week, or everything was going to collapse... don't know what happened, but the money is still there, waiting to be spent.

I'm not a financial wizard or economic guru, but I would think the influx of $600 billion into the economy, would probably 'boost' it, or at least give the appearance of 'improving' it temporarily, just in time for the elections. But Democrats wouldn't stoop to such unethical level, would they? After all, the Democrats just want to do what's right for the people! ....For the children!
 
And like I've been saying for 6 months, Obama back loaded the stimulus to kick into GDP in the second half of this year.
 
Stop stressing out Dixie. No worries, A lot of cons are on record from back when the stimulus bill passed that it would drive us into a depression, and/or be a total disaster for the economy. So what are you worried about?

don't you teabaggers always say the government can't do anything right? They'll probably just blow all this taxpayer money on five thousand dollar hammers, or on trillion dollar wars to kill muslims.
 
Yurt said:
yep...the stimulus is basically the democratic party election fund
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We agree on something at least, I like Obama but I bashed him and bush for the bailouts and the stimulus. They could have sent checks for $10,000 to each tax payer and that would have stimulated the shit out of the economy instead of playing let's fucked the layed off dude with election year pandering.
 
Topspin said:
We agree on something at least, I like Obama but I bashed him and bush for the bailouts and the stimulus. They could have sent checks for $10,000 to each tax payer and that would have stimulated the shit out of the economy instead of playing let's fucked the layed off dude with election year pandering.
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you know why the didn't do that this time, right?
 
I think he wanted to hold the recovery off till election time. ie 2010 & 2012. The last thing he wanted was a strong not sustainable recovery and another recession in time for the cons to kick him out in 12.
 
The whole "conspiracy theory" about the election timing of the stimulus ignores basic mathematics.

The plan was never to blow the whole bill in a few short months. It's a long-term stimulus bill, and they were (rightfully) concerned about creating more waste through spending without planning.

As for the mathematics - if they have faith that more stimulus spent = improving economy, any sane person who was worried about an election would want that spent sooner rather than later. Good economic news in a growing, recovering economy feeds on itself; it would be completely stupid to try to "time" it for the elections, when most of the positive effects will present themselves after the initial burst of spending.
 
Topspin said:
We agree on something at least, I like Obama but I bashed him and bush for the bailouts and the stimulus. They could have sent checks for $10,000 to each tax payer and that would have stimulated the shit out of the economy instead of playing let's fucked the layed off dude with election year pandering.
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i agree. also, instead of giving money to banks, how about letting consumers out of the debt. obama and bush just gave money to the rich and powerful who happen to be geithner's buddies....should have given it to us, since its our fucking money anyway
 
Onceler said:
The whole "conspiracy theory" about the election timing of the stimulus ignores basic mathematics.

The plan was never to blow the whole bill in a few short months. It's a long-term stimulus bill, and they were (rightfully) concerned about creating more waste through spending without planning.

As for the mathematics - if they have faith that more stimulus spent = improving economy, any sane person who was worried about an election would want that spent sooner rather than later. Good economic news in a growing, recovering economy feeds on itself; it would be completely stupid to try to "time" it for the elections, when most of the positive effects will present themselves after the initial burst of spending.
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stop being such an obama apologist

he could and should have spent this money a long time ago, instead he will get the money out this summer and viola, instant good economic news for the fall elections...open your eyes onceler
 
Onceler said:
The whole "conspiracy theory" about the election timing of the stimulus ignores basic mathematics.

The plan was never to blow the whole bill in a few short months. It's a long-term stimulus bill, and they were (rightfully) concerned about creating more waste through spending without planning.

As for the mathematics - if they have faith that more stimulus spent = improving economy, any sane person who was worried about an election would want that spent sooner rather than later. Good economic news in a growing, recovering economy feeds on itself; it would be completely stupid to try to "time" it for the elections, when most of the positive effects will present themselves after the initial burst of spending.
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I disagree with your 'math'.

I think the plan was to continue to see the pain throughout 2009 because they could keep pointing to Bush and saying 'it was his fault'. Then in 2010, push the bulk of the cash into the economy and say 'see!!! your messiah fixed the economy!!! It took some time, but he saved us!!!... what? there is an election in a month? ya don't say?'

This 'stimulus' has been little more than one stop gap attempt after another. Pretending there were shovel ready infrastructure jobs in every state is a joke. There are countless projects here in CO that have been planned... but due to lack of funding haven't been implemented.

Also... as for the effects showing, you are correct that the long term effects would not likely show in time for the 2010 election. But what would show up is the 'Help Wanted' signs popping up and the countless stories we would see on 'unemployment numbers declining' that would boost psychology. The long term bene's would conveniently then show up in 2011 and 2012... just in time for the anointed one to run for re-election.

/conspiracy
 
Onceler said:
The whole "conspiracy theory" about the election timing of the stimulus ignores basic mathematics.

The plan was never to blow the whole bill in a few short months. It's a long-term stimulus bill, and they were (rightfully) concerned about creating more waste through spending without planning.

As for the mathematics - if they have faith that more stimulus spent = improving economy, any sane person who was worried about an election would want that spent sooner rather than later. Good economic news in a growing, recovering economy feeds on itself; it would be completely stupid to try to "time" it for the elections, when most of the positive effects will present themselves after the initial burst of spending.
Click to expand...

My understanding, when John McCain suspended his presidential campaign and almost canceled the debates, was that our nation faced imminent economic catastrophe. Democrats were telling us how martial law might have to be declared in some cities, due to the banking/financial collapse that was certain to happen if we didn't act immediately. Our Congressmen voted to authorize nearly $800 billion of our tax dollars to bail out institutions it said were "too big to fail." Yet... $600 billion of that money is still awaiting allocation. In other words, we've been hoodwinked and lied to, by Democrats AND Republicans who voted for the stimulus. And as was correctly stated earlier, it has effectively become a war chest for Democrats re-election in 2010 and 2012. The money, which was supposed to be an emergency rescue to save us from certain impending doom, is now going to be used by Democrats to 'inject' the economy and make it appear we are in an 'improving' state. Just in time to influence stupid mid-term voters!
 
Dixie said:
My understanding, when John McCain suspended his presidential campaign and almost canceled the debates, was that our nation faced imminent economic catastrophe. Democrats were telling us how martial law might have to be declared in some cities, due to the banking/financial collapse that was certain to happen if we didn't act immediately. Our Congressmen voted to authorize nearly $800 billion of our tax dollars to bail out institutions it said were "too big to fail." Yet... $600 billion of that money is still awaiting allocation. In other words, we've been hoodwinked and lied to, by Democrats AND Republicans who voted for the stimulus. And as was correctly stated earlier, it has effectively become a war chest for Democrats re-election in 2010 and 2012. The money, which was supposed to be an emergency rescue to save us from certain impending doom, is now going to be used by Democrats to 'inject' the economy and make it appear we are in an 'improving' state. Just in time to influence stupid mid-term voters!
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You ignore the effects of the stimulus passage on confidence, one of the pillars of the economy, and also one of the main reasons for an extended period of downfall.

If Obama splurged and blew it all in the 1st few months or year, there would be ridiculous waste, and that would be your talking point. The plan was always to spend the money over a period of years - it is a long-term recovery plan.

The idea that they're waiting just to infuse it "right before the elections" is somewhat economically challenged. If the politicians really are doing that, they are dumber than even most Americans think. The sooner the economy goes into full-fledged recovery, the better for their re-election prospects. It's the effects AFTER the money is spent that will be the most prolonged & noticeable.
 
Topspin said:
I think he wanted to hold the recovery off till election time. ie 2010 & 2012. The last thing he wanted was a strong not sustainable recovery and another recession in time for the cons to kick him out in 12.
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nope. it was because the last time they tried it, instead of people taking those checks and buying a product they didn't need (like a plasma tv or new computer), they spent it on bills or stashed it for even more desperate times. So, like all elitists, the government will spend our money for us in betters ways than they think we would.
 
Onceler said:
You ignore the effects of the stimulus passage on confidence, one of the pillars of the economy, and also one of the main reasons for an extended period of downfall.

If Obama splurged and blew it all in the 1st few months or year, there would be ridiculous waste, and that would be your talking point. The plan was always to spend the money over a period of years - it is a long-term recovery plan.

The idea that they're waiting just to infuse it "right before the elections" is somewhat economically challenged. If the politicians really are doing that, they are dumber than even most Americans think. The sooner the economy goes into full-fledged recovery, the better for their re-election prospects. It's the effects AFTER the money is spent that will be the most prolonged & noticeable.
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Well, the economy isn't going into full-fledged recovery, sooner or later... unless by later you mean, when Conservatives take back power and implement policies to encourage economic prosperity. The Stimulus money isn't going to turn the economy around, but if strategically allocated, can indeed make the economy "appear" to be recovering and thriving. That is all the Democrats are concerned with, making it "appear" to be all rosy and bright just before election time. Think of it as a $600 billion political optical illusion.
 
Dixie said:
My understanding, when John McCain suspended his presidential campaign and almost canceled the debates, was that our nation faced imminent economic catastrophe. Democrats were telling us how martial law might have to be declared in some cities, due to the banking/financial collapse that was certain to happen if we didn't act immediately. Our Congressmen voted to authorize nearly $800 billion of our tax dollars to bail out institutions it said were "too big to fail." Yet... $600 billion of that money is still awaiting allocation. In other words, we've been hoodwinked and lied to, by Democrats AND Republicans who voted for the stimulus. And as was correctly stated earlier, it has effectively become a war chest for Democrats re-election in 2010 and 2012. The money, which was supposed to be an emergency rescue to save us from certain impending doom, is now going to be used by Democrats to 'inject' the economy and make it appear we are in an 'improving' state. Just in time to influence stupid mid-term voters!
Click to expand...


The "Bailout" (TARP) and the Stimulus Bill are two different things. You don't seem to understand that.
 
Onceler said:
The whole "conspiracy theory" about the election timing of the stimulus ignores basic mathematics.

The plan was never to blow the whole bill in a few short months. It's a long-term stimulus bill, and they were (rightfully) concerned about creating more waste through spending without planning.

As for the mathematics - if they have faith that more stimulus spent = improving economy, any sane person who was worried about an election would want that spent sooner rather than later. Good economic news in a growing, recovering economy feeds on itself; it would be completely stupid to try to "time" it for the elections, when most of the positive effects will present themselves after the initial burst of spending.
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really onceler....you're embarrassing yourself:

Keenly aware that this is a congressional election year, Democrats structured the law so virtually all the cuts start next year and take effect only gradually.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100331/ap_on_bi_ge/us_health_overhaul_medicare
 
That's hillarious long term stimulus, wow both sides are putting out SNL comedy today. Yeah weather stripping is long term. Lol
long term would be capital investment in solar, wind, smart grid. Not funding state and local daily expenses.
 
Dixie said:
Well, the economy isn't going into full-fledged recovery, sooner or later... unless by later you mean, when Conservatives take back power and implement policies to encourage economic prosperity. The Stimulus money isn't going to turn the economy around, but if strategically allocated, can indeed make the economy "appear" to be recovering and thriving. That is all the Democrats are concerned with, making it "appear" to be all rosy and bright just before election time. Think of it as a $600 billion political optical illusion.
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For a conservative, you put an inordinate amount of faith in "government policies" to save the masses.

I hate to disappoint you, but we're headed for a boom. The stimulus was necessary to stem the bleeding & help restore some confidence, but ultimately, it will be developments in a few new & prominent industries that will restore prosperity in the years ahead. It's already happening.
 
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