JFK quote misses the point.

Jarod

Well-known member
Contributor
"Let every nation know... we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty."

I have seen some Bush supporters use this.

I wish JFK were alive to expalin to Bush what promotes survival and success of liberty vs. what henders it!
 
Liberty is spread by promoting democracy, by the strong helping those not free, by the free standing for the oppressed. Marshall plans create liberty, not talk, action, plans like the one being used in the Middle east now.

It worked in Europe, it worked in Asia, turned the bloodiest continent, into the most democratic, peaceful continent on the planet, and it only happened by the defeat of tyrants, and the determined will of the free peoples not to see the errors of the past repeated, I seek that same resolution today.

Partisan Democrats today root for American military defeat, in fact obstruct the prosecution of terrorists, only to score political points against the President.
 
"It worked in Europe, it worked in Asia, turned the bloodiest continent, into the most democratic, peaceful continent on the planet,"


Huh ?
 
Liberty is spread by promoting democracy, by the strong helping those not free, by the free standing for the oppressed. Marshall plans create liberty, not talk, action, plans like the one being used in the Middle east now.

It worked in Europe, it worked in Asia, turned the bloodiest continent, into the most democratic, peaceful continent on the planet, and it only happened by the defeat of tyrants, and the determined will of the free peoples not to see the errors of the past repeated, I seek that same resolution today.

Partisan Democrats today root for American military defeat, in fact obstruct the prosecution of terrorists, only to score political points against the President.


but freedom is suppressed when we support dictatorships, like most of our "allies" in the war on terror.
 
but freedom is suppressed when we support dictatorships, like most of our "allies" in the war on terror.

change isn't going to be one hammer fall, and presto chango, we have the chance to change the mindset of an entire generation in a vast swath of the middle east now, and without some support from the more moderate Middle Eastern states, sure moderate there isn't moderate here, but we have to recognize reality to pursue these policies...
 
Persueing a murderous crusaide against a people who do not want us there is not furthering the cause of Democracy rather hendering it!
 
change isn't going to be one hammer fall, and presto chango, we have the chance to change the mindset of an entire generation in a vast swath of the middle east now, and without some support from the more moderate Middle Eastern states, sure moderate there isn't moderate here, but we have to recognize reality to pursue these policies...

You're a fucked in the head nazi. Freedom through totalitarianism? get bent, psycho.
 
What because some people got purple ink on a finger when they voted that means it was right to forcefully go in and set up elections?

There are plenty of places more needing of change than Iraq was, but its not our place to effect that change for other people.
 
You're a fucked in the head nazi. Freedom through totalitarianism? get bent, psycho.


Extremism is a place on a political spectrum, our actions today, if successful will promote a more moderate Middle east tomorrow. It has nothing to do with totalitarianism, it's tugging on the leanings of the spectrum, we have pushed major democratic reforms throughout the region as well, not everyone is ideal, but we are working to take them in the right direction...
 
What because some people got purple ink on a finger when they voted that means it was right to forcefully go in and set up elections?

There are plenty of places more needing of change than Iraq was, but its not our place to effect that change for other people.




Has Iraq sponsored terrorism?
Yes. Saddam Hussein’s dictatorship provided headquarters, operating bases, training camps, and other support to terrorist. During the 1991 Gulf War, Saddam commissioned several failed terrorist attacks on U.S. facilities. The State Department has listed Iraq as a state sponsor of terrorism through both Democrat and Republican administrations.

http://cfrterrorism.org/sponsors/iraq.html

Has Iraq ever used weapons of mass destruction?
Yes. In the 1980s Iran-Iraq War, Iraqi troops repeatedly used poison gas, including mustard gas and the nerve agent sarin, against Iranian soldiers, and dropping mustard-gas bombs on Iranian villages. Human Rights Watch reports that Iraq frequently used nerve agents and mustard gas against Iraqi Kurds living in the country’s north. In March 1988, Saddam’s forces killed thousands of Iraqi Kurds in the town of Halabja with chemical weapons.
(Warning very graphic)
http://www.firethistime.org/halabjavictims.jpg
http://www.iraqdigest.com/Halabja-.jpg


Coalition troops destroyed at least three terrorist training camps, and soldiers of the 7th Marine Regiment destroyed a suspected terrorist camp early Sunday en route to Baghdad.
It featured a passenger-jet fuselage where numerous Iraqi defectors reported that foreign terrorists were instructed how to hijack airliners with utensils.
http://www.nationalreview.com/murdock/murdock040703.asp


Saddam Hussein paid bonuses of up to $25,000 to the families of Palestinian homicide bombers


Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, formerly the director of an al Qaeda training base in Afghanistan, fled to Iraq after being injured as the Taliban fell. His safe place to fall back to was Iraq, were he set up camp afterwards.


Saddam’s forces killed thousands of innocent Iraqi civilian Kurds in the town of Halabja with chemical weapons, men women and children littered the streets dead were they stood when the bombs fell.
http://www.barzan.com/hal66.jpg


http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/decade/sect5.html




Even in the absence if actual WMDs, those who combed through the remains of Saddam’s regime in Iraq have already turned up incontrovertible evidence of intent. Dr. David Kay, the chief arms investigator, reported results to congress, he found:

1.) A clandestine network of laboratories and safe houses within the Iraqi Intelligence Service that contained equipment for continuing chemical and Biological weapons research.

2.) A prison laboratory complex used in human testing of BW agents, which Iraqi officials were explicitly order not to report to the UN.

3.) New research on BW-applicable agents, Burcella and Congo Crimean hemorrhagic fever, and continuing work on ricin and aflatoxin, which were not declared to the UN and done in secret.

4.) Documents and equipment, hidden in scientist’s homes that would have been useful in resuming uranium enrichment by centrifuge and electromagnetic isotope separation.

5.) Reference strains used to produce biological weapons concealed in a scientist’s home

6.) A line of UAV’s undeclared and that tested way out of range, with weapons delivering abilities.

7.) Continuing covert capability to manufacture fuel propellant useful for prohibited SCUD variant missiles, and Iraqi scientist’s admission of concealment from the UN.

8.) Plans and designs for long range missilery with ranges of up to 1000 km, well beyond the imposed UN limits

9.) Clandestine attempts at obtaining long range missilery from the N. Korean’s.


Any way you slice it, there’s no denying Saddam’s intent- not only to develop prohibited weaponry, but to destroy all traces of any weapon. “In addition to the discovery of extensive concealment efforts” Dr. Kay told Congress,

We have been faced with a systematic sanitization of documents and computers evidence in a wide range of offices, laboratories, and companies suspected of WMD work.

http://www.cia.gov/cia/public_affairs/speeches/2003/david_kay_10022003.html


UN Security Council resolutions on Iraq, threatening war, now just imagine this in our own terms, would you be ok with a murderer getting a slap on the wrist and a reprimand this many times to run free in the community.

1490, 1483, 1476, 1472, 1454, 1443, 1441, 1409, 1382, 1360, 1352, 1330, 1302, 1293, 1284, 1281, 1280, 1275, 1266, 1242, 1210, 1205, 1194, 1175, 1158, 1154, 1153, 1143, 1137, 1134, 1129, 1115, 1111, 1060, 1051, 986, 949, 899, 806, 778, 773, 715, 712, 707, 706, 705, 699, 692, 689, 688, 687, 686, 685, 678, 677, 676, 674,
671, 670, 669, 667, 666, 665, 664, 662, 661, 660


Saddam was bribing the international community through the UN, to prevent any action on these many, many, resolutions he was flaunting. Saddam was setting the precedence to bribe your way through the UN, and the corrupt body has yet to do anything serious to reform itself.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/WNT/Investigation/saddam_oil_vouchers_040129-4.html

Saddam’s Gifts
Document: Saddam Supporters Received Lucrative Oil Contracts Continued

Russia
Head of the Russian Presidential Cabinet: 90 million

The Companies of the Russian Communist Party: 137 million
The Companies of the Liberal Democratic Party: 79.8 million

France
Bernard Merimee, French ambassador to the United Nations: 3 million

Charles Pasqua, minister of interior: 12 million

Palestinian Territories
The Palestinian Liberation Organization: 4 million
Abu Al Abbas: 11.5 million

Libya
Prime Minister Shukri Ghanem: 1 million

Syria
Firas Mostafa Tlass, son of Syria's defense minister: 6 million

Turkey
Zeynel Abidin Erdem: more than 27 million
Lotfy Doghan: more than 11 million

Indonesia
Megawati Sukarnoputri: 11 million

Spain
Ali Ballout, 8.8 million

Canada
Arthur Millholland, 9.5 million




Bin Laden aided a group of Islamist extremists operating in Kurdistan. In the late 1990s, these extremist groups suffered major defeats by Kurdish forces. In 2001, with Bin Ladin’s help they re-formed into an organization called Ansar al Islam. There are indications that

the Iraqi regime tolerated and may even have helped Ansar al Islam


-911 Commission Final Report 7/22/04

With the Sudanese regime acting as intermediary, Bin Ladin himself met with a senior Iraqi intelligence officers in Khartoum in late 1994 or early 1995… the ensuing years saw additional efforts to establish connections.


-911 Commission Final Report 7/22/04

On November 4, 1998, the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York unsealed its indictment of Bin Ladin. The indictment added that al Qaeda had “reached an understanding with the government of Iraq that al Qaeda would not work against that government and that on particular projects, specifically including weapons development, al Qaeda would work cooperatively with the Government of Iraq.”109


-911 Commission Final Report 7/22/04



"Does [America] realize the meaning of every Iraqi becoming a missile that can cross to countries and cities?"
Saddam Hussein, September 29, 1994



"[O]ur striking arm will reach [America, Britain and Saudi Arabia] before they know what hit them."
Al-Qadisiyah, October 6, 1994 (State-controlled newspaper)


"One chemical weapon fired in a moment of despair could cause the deaths of hundreds of thousands." Al-Quds al-Arabi, October 12, 1994 (State-controlled newspaper)


Khobar Towers Bombing, June 25, 1996
"[The U.S.] should send more coffins to Saudi Arabia, because no one can guess what the future has in store."
Saddam Hussein, Iraqi Radio, June 27, 1996


U.S.S. Cole Bombing, October 12, 2000
"[Iraqis] should intensify struggle and jihad in all fields and by all means..."
Iraq TV, October 22, 2000 (State-controlled)


The Attacks of September 11
"The United States reaps the thorns its rulers have planted in the world."
Saddam Hussein, September 12, 2001

"The real perpetrators [of September 11] are within the collapsed buildings."
Alif-Ba, September 11, 2002 (State-controlled newspaper)

"[September 11 was] God's punishment."
Al-Iktisadi, September 11, 2002 (State-controlled newspaper)

"If the attacks of September 11 cost the lives of 3,000 civilians, how much will the size of losses in 50 states within 100 cities if it were attacked in the same way in which New York and Washington were? What would happen if hundreds of planes attacked American cities?"
Al-Rafidayn, September 11, 2002 (State-controlled newspaper)

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/iraq/sadquots.htm
 
Liberty is spread by promoting democracy, by the strong helping those not free, by the free standing for the oppressed. Marshall plans create liberty, not talk, action, plans like the one being used in the Middle east now.

It worked in Europe, it worked in Asia, turned the bloodiest continent, into the most democratic, peaceful continent on the planet, and it only happened by the defeat of tyrants, and the determined will of the free peoples not to see the errors of the past repeated, I seek that same resolution today.

Partisan Democrats today root for American military defeat, in fact obstruct the prosecution of terrorists, only to score political points against the President.

No, liberty is maintained by keeping a firm restriction on governmental power and protecting individual rights. You don't "spread liberty" by using governmental force throughout the world like a thug. You protect freedom at home and provide an example to all others. Moreover, you trade and talk with all nations as economic liberty engenders the desire for political franchise and reform.

You really need to drop the doublethink, WRL.
 
We can't invade everyone, fix every wrong, we can change a vast swath of the region, and in countries like Saudi Arabia, we can promote democracy like we have, as they now allow elections on a localized scale. It's of course still a Kingdom, but democracy is sprouting up from the local level, and as we are seeing in Iraq, that is the best place to start.
 
No, liberty is maintained by keeping a firm restriction on governmental power and protecting individual rights. You don't "spread liberty" by using governmental force throughout the world like a thug. You protect freedom at home and provide an example to all others. Moreover, you trade and talk with all nations as economic liberty engenders the desire for political franchise and reform.

You really need to drop the doublethink, WRL.


Really, read about the 20th century lately?
 
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