JFK quote misses the point.

Democracy isn't prevalant in the middle east primarily because the people, at some level, don't really believe in it.

Tribalism is still too strong in the ME for Democracy to work out.
That and religion. Democracy worked in the USA because a lot of it's early people came from a religiously opressive place.

but given time religion has about messed it up here too.
 
Democracy isn't prevalant in the middle east primarily because the people, at some level, don't really believe in it.

That's right. They are raised in totalitarianism. But fomenting the army of god in the ME and then importing it into western societies to destroy them is the plan. Has been for a while. Hence, the reason why the war on terror is strictly an overseas operation. Domestically, Islam is the religion of peace. Bush said so.
 
We don't promote liberty by freely trading with slave child labor, and currency manipulators, an American working man cannot compete with that, and we are seeing what our promotion of liberty in that regards has not given us.

You don't promote freedom by isolationism, burying our heads in the sand.

And we attacked nations that either attacked us, or where in violation of a cease fire agreement that clearly outlined a resumption of hostilities on a long list of violations by the Iraqi government. We acted legally and with diligence, and now have the only opportunity to defeat terrorism, than had we done nothing.
 
The reason no one attempts to invade the US is because it would be impossible. National pride in the worlds first true democracy is too strong. Even Hitlers Germany, which was grounded at its base in nationalism before anything else, wasn't as strong as the national democracy that occured by the US giving power to its citizens.

But what does the middle east have? Not much. No enlightenment has occured there. 99% of the people in Afghanistan agreed with the execution of an apostate. They wouldn't really disagree with a dictatorship as long as it was religious. This is the kind of people we are trying to set up a democracy with. The democracy will never really be much better than the dictatorship.

I mean, I don't think we should invade them. Change may or may not come with time, but it certainly won't come with an invasion.
 
Liberty is spread by promoting democracy, by the strong helping those not free, by the free standing for the oppressed. Marshall plans create liberty, not talk, action, plans like the one being used in the Middle east now.

It worked in Europe, it worked in Asia, turned the bloodiest continent, into the most democratic, peaceful continent on the planet, and it only happened by the defeat of tyrants, and the determined will of the free peoples not to see the errors of the past repeated, I seek that same resolution today.

Partisan Democrats today root for American military defeat, in fact obstruct the prosecution of terrorists, only to score political points against the President.

You forgot to mention that a great many REPUBLICANS don't support your president ..

Nor did you mention that REPUBLICANS running for president won't even mention his unholy name.
 
We don't promote liberty by freely trading with slave child labor, and currency manipulators, an American working man cannot compete with that, and we are seeing what our promotion of liberty in that regards has not given us.

You don't promote freedom by isolationism, burying our heads in the sand.

And we attacked nations that either attacked us, or where in violation of a cease fire agreement that clearly outlined a resumption of hostilities on a long list of violations by the Iraqi government. We acted legally and with diligence, and now have the only opportunity to defeat terrorism, than had we done nothing.


But you do keep your citizens employed by not allowing slave labor products in the country. You do not eliminate fascism by adopting it's practices and abandoning your own morality.
 
Democracy isn't prevalant in the middle east primarily because the people, at some level, don't really believe in it.

Do I really need to break out the exact number of millions of Iraqi's that braved terrorism to vote? It's a new concept sure, and it'll take time for them to develop an acceptable system to effectively govern successfully, but the bounty in trade, friendship, alliances, will far outweigh our sacrifices. We sacrificed ten times what we have for WWII, and no one questions our sacrifice today, because we turned an entire continent around. with determined reconstruction.
 
Do I really need to break out the exact number of millions of Iraqi's that braved terrorism to vote? It's a new concept sure, and it'll take time for them to develop an acceptable system to effectively govern successfully, but the bounty in trade, friendship, alliances, will far outweigh our sacrifices. We sacrificed ten times what we have for WWII, and no one questions our sacrifice today, because we turned an entire continent around. with determined reconstruction.

WRL, "democracy", in its modern form, doesn't mean that people are simply allowed to vote. It means a hell of a lot more than that. And the people of Afghanistan and Iraq don't believe in that. They half-heartedly agree with the right to vote. But they wouldn't mind a dictator as long as he imposed Shira law.

The Muslims in America are much more peaceful, but of course, I diagree with all religion, so what am I to say about it?
 
you do keep your citizens employed by not allowing slave labor products in the country.

Yes you do, Americans can't compete with child slave labor, nor should we freely trade with currency manipulators. We shoot ourselves in the foot regulating our trade to certain standards other nations don't adopt, and since I'm not advocating we degenerate to their level, I do oppose free trade with them.

You do not eliminate fascism by adopting it's practices and abandoning your own morality.

???
 
Do I really need to break out the exact number of millions of Iraqi's that braved terrorism to vote? It's a new concept sure, and it'll take time for them to develop an acceptable system to effectively govern successfully, but the bounty in trade, friendship, alliances, will far outweigh our sacrifices. We sacrificed ten times what we have for WWII, and no one questions our sacrifice today, because we turned an entire continent around. with determined reconstruction.

Pure right-wing bullshit and the Iraqi people know the US came as pirates, not liberators. Terrorism was not an issue in Iraq before the US got there.

More importantly, it is clear that Saddam, even in all his evil, served a purpose in Iraq because Iraq needed a strongman to keep the lid on sectarian violence and Iraq was better off under Saddam than it is today.
 
WRL, "democracy", in its modern form, doesn't mean that people are simply allowed to vote. It means a hell of a lot more than that. And the people of Afghanistan and Iraq don't believe in that. They half-heartedly agree with the right to vote. But they wouldn't mind a dictator as long as he imposed Shira law.

The Muslims in America are much more peaceful, but of course, I diagree with all religion, so what am I to say about it?

We face a cultural problem, this brand of thinking has been indoctrinated into the masses through Islamist schools, and state run media reinforcing that hardwired ideology.


"Does [America] realize the meaning of every Iraqi becoming a missile that can cross to countries and cities?"
Saddam Hussein, September 29, 1994



"[O]ur striking arm will reach [America, Britain and Saudi Arabia] before they know what hit them."
Al-Qadisiyah, October 6, 1994 (State-controlled newspaper)


"One chemical weapon fired in a moment of despair could cause the deaths of hundreds of thousands." Al-Quds al-Arabi, October 12, 1994 (State-controlled newspaper)


Khobar Towers Bombing, June 25, 1996
"[The U.S.] should send more coffins to Saudi Arabia, because no one can guess what the future has in store."
Saddam Hussein, Iraqi Radio, June 27, 1996


U.S.S. Cole Bombing, October 12, 2000
"[Iraqis] should intensify struggle and jihad in all fields and by all means..."
Iraq TV, October 22, 2000 (State-controlled)


The Attacks of September 11
"The United States reaps the thorns its rulers have planted in the world."
Saddam Hussein, September 12, 2001

"The real perpetrators [of September 11] are within the collapsed buildings."
Alif-Ba, September 11, 2002 (State-controlled newspaper)

"[September 11 was] God's punishment."
Al-Iktisadi, September 11, 2002 (State-controlled newspaper)

"If the attacks of September 11 cost the lives of 3,000 civilians, how much will the size of losses in 50 states within 100 cities if it were attacked in the same way in which New York and Washington were? What would happen if hundreds of planes attacked American cities?"
Al-Rafidayn, September 11, 2002 (State-controlled newspaper)

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/iraq/sadquots.htm


The only way to fix the problem is to rid the institutions that are enabling this to become a widespread problem, well now many have been removed, across a great swath of the middle east, but to see long term change, because as you note, many people have been raised this way, we have to help the Afghans, and Iraqi's establish a stable democratic system that will allow third party idea's to flourish in education, and media. This brand of extremism cannot stand up to scrutiny, to sunlight.
 
"Let every nation know... we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty."

I have seen some Bush supporters use this.

I wish JFK were alive to expalin to Bush what promotes survival and success of liberty vs. what henders it!

Democrats seem to have lost touch with his other famous quote "ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country"....

Now the Dem mantra is... "the government should pay for everything and we don't want to do anything for ourselves. Personal responsibility is a thing of the past"
 
Personal responsibility is a thing of the past
//
I thought the Republicans were bringing that back. Seems like I heard that a few thousand times in 2000 and 2004.
 
Democrats seem to have lost touch with his other famous quote "ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country"....

Now the Dem mantra is... "the government should pay for everything and we don't want to do anything for ourselves. Personal responsibility is a thing of the past"

I disagree with that. I am a Democrat and I do plenty for my Country and ask for very little in return.
 
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