John Lame Deer

[Cypress]

Who said slavery was "a perfectly natural and desirable state of affairs"? Agreed most Christians didn't seem to see slavery as moral but times change. Royalty made do with serfs, peasants and other commoners.

Not you.

A lot of people have floated the claim that before the 18th or 19th century, slavery was generally just viewed as a natural state of the world that really wasn't even questioned.

 

[Cypress]

There are many different types of slavery you know

You will be laughed out of any legitimate history department when you claim that serfdom was so functionally equivalent to slavery, that there's no point in even having two different words for the distinction between them.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Not you.

A lot of people have floated the claim that before the 18th or 19th century, slavery was generally just viewed as a natural state of the world that really wasn't even questioned.

Racism is the belief that some races are "naturally" superior than others. Manifest Destiny is an example of that ideology. While I agree it's not, as genetics have proved, some persist in believing that some races are inferior and, therefore, it's "natural" that superior races would dominate them.

 

[Tinkerpeach]

Now prove they ran an entire herd of hundreds and only took one leaving the rest to rot, Tink.

Tell me how one tribe is going to consume hundreds of buffalo before the meat goes bad?

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

Do you remember what the most effective of the early environmental commercials were on TV in the early 1970s?

It was that anti-pollution ad that ended with a closeup of the Indian with a tear rolling down his check.

Yes. Very moving.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

I never claimed it was only the native Americans doing it, my point was to show that they were far friendlier the nature loving people they are made out to be

Drunk-posting again. Going to have to start calling you Toxic II.

No, your point was to denigrate an entire group of human beings because, for some reason, you think your own race is superior. It wasn't just your lies about indigenous ppl allegedly destroying the environment. You also stated that they are stupid, that they practiced cannibalism, contradictory lies about not doing much in the way of agriculture but then burning down entire forests for clear-cutting, and that the earliest humans caused the extinction of megafauna. All of these are false and you have been schooled. Now put on this pointy white hat and robe, and go stand in the corner.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

“A buffalo jump, or sometimes bison jump, is a cliff formation which Indigenous peoples of North America historically used to hunt and kill plains bison in mass quantities. The broader term game jump refers to a man-made jump or cliff used for hunting other game, such as reindeer.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buf...mp, or sometimes,other game, such as reindeer.

Duh. Thanks, subhuman bigot. We all know what it is. What we don't believe is your lies about how they would killed hundreds of animals and leave most of them to rot.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

You will be laughed out of any legitimate history department when you claim that serfdom was so functionally equivalent to slavery, that there's no point in even having two different words for the distinction between them.

That one knows how to look up Wikipedia stuff, but has no idea what the words mean. It's highly unlikely that troll ever set foot inside a university, unless it was to mop and empty the wastebaskets.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

Tell me how one tribe is going to consume hundreds of buffalo before the meat goes bad?

I already explained that, troll. Ever hear of jerky? Pemmican? Sausage? Ever traveled to any of the Plains states out West? Hot, dry, windy climate = perfect conditions to either smoke or dry meat. Humans have been preserving meat and fish this way for thousands of years.

I've heard that falsehood from other Eurocentric racists. First Stinker says that they barely managed agriculture or civilization. But then they're burning down huge tracts of forest. I wonder how the Euros built their cabins, forts, villages, towns, cities, and metropolises w/o wood?

Driving game over cliffs is an ancient hunting practice done not just by Paleoindians in N. and S. America, but across the world. As usual Stinker is lying when she claims that American indigenous people used one buffalo out of hundreds killed. Waste of course was inevitable, but meat and hides that were excess were dried and preserved and traded, esp. for foods and items that were unavailable to that locale. There is archaeological evidence that the excess was traded to obtain pottery, grains, other dried non-meat foods, copper (used for decorations), shells, beads made from various materials, tools, toys, and other daily necessities and desires.

Stinker would do well to take a college-level cultural and/or physical anthropology class or two, as I have. I'm fairly sure that that somewhat-teachable simple primate could learn something. She might develop a better sense of how creative and intelligent our ancestors really were, no matter what continent they dwelled upon.

 

[Cypress]

That one knows how to look up Wikipedia stuff, but has no idea what the words mean. It's highly unlikely that troll ever set foot inside a university, unless it was to mop and empty the wastebaskets.

It's one thing to use Wikipedia in a good faith effort at learning.

It's another to have a preconceived notion, and then misrepresent what Wikipedia actually says.

I saw nothing in the article that says people harvested the meat from one bison, and left the others to rot.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Tell me how one tribe is going to consume hundreds of buffalo before the meat goes bad?

They can't. Prove to me Indians wiped out the Buffalo. Do you know who did wipe out the buffalo herds, Tink?

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

It's one thing to use Wikipedia in a good faith effort at learning.

It's another to have a preconceived notion, and then misrepresent what Wikipedia actually says.

I saw nothing in the article that says people harvested the meat from one bison, and left the others to rot.

Because that didn't happen. On one hand, the idiot bimbo claims that the indigenous people were living a subsistence, caveman-type lifestyle. Then claims that they wasted tons of meat. That's not even logical.

If we were benevolent, we'd consider the possibility that she confused the game-herding/cliff-drives with the wanton waste of white hunters who rode the trains and stagecoaches, shot thousands upon thousands of bison, and then harvested the tongue, or a hide, or horns -- and left the rest to rot. A few photos from that time coming up. What better way to subdue a free people than to deprive them of their main source of food?

 

[Taichiliberal]

Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
And yet there were NATIONS of various tribal people inhabiting America....people who lived WITH the land....people WHO DID NOT POLLUTE THE LAND TO THE POINT OF BEING UNINHABITABLE. They had no need for guns. They understood balance. There was no need for "technology" beyond what they had, as they PROSPERED. Who knows what might have developed if not for the intervention of the Europeans. And those tribes that had agriculture did so only as needed to supplement fish & game.

Perfect? By no means, as there was warfare between nations & tribes. But there were no weapons of mass destruction (explosives, canons, guns).

Your "superior" Europeans came over the seas bringing disease, introducing concepts that disrupted the ecology and ruined the landscape. Later, the need for oil further poisoned the land. They also brought over their version of tribal warfare, further disrupting a part of the world that was doing okay without them.

To compare South America to North America in culture and development as some sort of equal status race is the folly of the ignorant and biased.

You might want to visit a college and talk to a professor before you blather on in your prideful stupidity.

The early tribes were responsible for wiping out the majority of mega fauna from North America

They clear cut forests with fire leaf idling to soil erosion and destroying life in huge parts of major rivers

You need to look at the real history of native Americans, not just the woke version

Hell the Iroquois and Mohawk tribes practiced cannibalism

Your first sentence is complete absurdity! Where did you get this? What documented, historical facts do you base this on? Or are you (once again) just blowing mental flatulence in hopes people are too uniformed or willfully ignorant to call you on it?

So far, YOU have just avoided ALL the points I previously put forth in favor of blowing smoke on another topic and using the trigger du jour for the MAGA minions.

And like all bigoted bumpkins desperate to associate themselves with a "superior" race, you only focus on PARTS of history that supports your propaganda. Case in point, your blather about the Iroquois & Mohawks:

historically, there's a lot of talk about cannibalism but very little in the way of direct observations. It always seems to be something that someone else, somewhere else was doing. The Jesuit Relations is the major historical source for Iroquoian peoples in the 1600s. In these documents, while the Wendat say they had once practiced cannibalism but had since given it up by the time the French missionaries arrived, the missionaries still reported that the cannibalism was taking place in this town or that (wherever the missionaries weren't) and especially among the Haudenosaunee. There's an incident in October 1635 when the Wendat had taken a Haudenosaunee captive and brought him back to the town where one of the French were staying. According to the missionary Paul le Jeune, there was talk of impending cannibalism among the Wendat as they watched the war party arrived with the captive. Since the captive was allegedly part of a group that had attacked and killed some French men earlier, the Wendat invited the French to the feast. Le Jeune refused, saying that they were not cannibals. Despite all that, though, the captive wasn't killed and eaten but adopted into the Wendat community. When the Haudenosaunee invade Wendake, the Jesuits elsewhere in New France are certain their compatriots were burned and devoured. But for all the early reports of cannibalism among the Haudenosaunee, by the time the Jesuit missionaries actually establish themselves in Haudenosaunee territory, accounts rapidly dwindle.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/21awly/which_iroquois_tribes_practiced_cannibalism/

Were they really man-eaters?
It's not clear anymore whether that name was supposed to be literal, or an insult, or just a figure of speech to show that the Mohawks were fierce. Some Mohawk people believe that in ancient times, before they joined the Iroquois Confederacy, their ancestors used to eat enemies they had killed in battle. Other Mohawks think that never really happened and cannibals were always rare and strange in Mohawk society, like they were in other cultures.

http://www.bigorrin.org/mohawk_kids.htm

 

[Tinkerpeach]

Drunk-posting again. Going to have to start calling you Toxic II.

No, your point was to denigrate an entire group of human beings because, for some reason, you think your own race is superior. It wasn't just your lies about indigenous ppl allegedly destroying the environment. You also stated that they are stupid, that they practiced cannibalism, contradictory lies about not doing much in the way of agriculture but then burning down entire forests for clear-cutting, and that the earliest humans caused the extinction of megafauna. All of these are false and you have been schooled. Now put on this pointy white hat and robe, and go stand in the corner.

They are all proven

You are in denial because you want to believe that a group of millions of people never did a single thing to harm the environment

You should look up the starvation of Jamestown where the Indians forcibly starved the first settlers before we ever did anything to them

 

[Margot]

The question was about what the Indians did, not what the white man did

Deflection from white trash sins against the red men!

 

[IBDaMann]

Next item of bigotry I can dispel for you?

Why do you HATE Caucasians, and why do you hurl "European" as a slur"? You're a fucking cowardly bigot who knows absolutely nothing.

Why do you worship tribes of people you know nothing about? Why do you hold "native Americans" above Caucasians as being inherently superior?

I think this is just another case of your virtue-signaling because you see it as your only chance of redemption. You suck in every other way. Well, actually Terry dreams about you, so you have that going for you. Shit normally has little else in the asset category.

 

[IBDaMann]

Deflection from white trash sins against the red men!

For my edification, what sins would those be? Who constitutes "white trash"? Which men are red? Are my children red men, white trash, black, or something else? How can they verify on their own?

 

[Tinkerpeach]

They can't. Prove to me Indians wiped out the Buffalo. Do you know who did wipe out the buffalo herds, Tink?

I never said they did and if you guys think one tribe could break down hundreds of buffalo before the meat spoiled you are fooling yourselves

It would take hundreds of people to skin and slaughter them, hundreds more to transport it and hundreds more to begin the preservation process.

Hunting parties were never that large meaning they slaughtered far more then they could possibly use.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

They are all proven

You are in denial because you want to believe that a group of millions of people never did a single thing to harm the environment

You should look up the starvation of Jamestown where the Indians forcibly starved the first settlers before we ever did anything to them

Your hyperbole exposes that you've realized that you've lost the debate, since you persist in believing myths in order to excuse your racism. It is interesting that you blame the failure of Jamestown on the native people, when in reality it was a combination of things. From the Historic Jamestown's own site:

“The starving time” was the winter of 1609-1610, when food shortages, fractured leadership, and a siege by Powhatan Indian warriors killed two of every three colonists at James Fort. From its beginning, the colony struggled to maintain a food supply. Trade relations with the Virginia Indian tribes were strained because a severe seven-year drought stressed food supplies for everyone in the region. Captain John Smith had some success trading European goods for corn in the first two years of the settlement, but his strongarm tactics also angered the tribal communities.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I never said they did and if you guys think one tribe could break down hundreds of buffalo before the meat spoiled you are fooling yourselves

It would take hundreds of people to skin and slaughter them, hundreds more to transport it and hundreds more to begin the preservation process.

Hunting parties were never that large meaning they slaughtered far more then they could possibly use.

Nice dance shuffle there, Tink!

Sooo...according to you, the Indians wiped out the buffalo herds and were destroying the land until the White settlers stopped them. Got it. Thanks!