Minister of Truth
Practically Perfect
You're an emotard, and will fail your upcoming test.
Lawyer: Punching-death defendant 'not evil'
- Thread starter Cancel 2018. 3
- Start date
You're an emotard, and will fail your upcoming test.
Hmmm... Are they charging with felony murder? That would be a bit different and would cause a charge of Murder 1. You make a good case. They planned on committing a felony, any death that occurs would be "felony murder" and would be charged as Murder 1...
Minister of Truth
Practically Perfect
LOLZ Watermark negged me, and not even for the post I expected.
This was not the first incident of this nature either charged against this guy.
The family is Buddhist. They have no hatred for these boys and especially have spoken out about how hard it must be on their families.
They only want to raise the awareness and try to get attention to the circumstances that led two 18 year olds to have rum in the first place, hit a man so hard he fell to the ground, hit his head, and never again regained consciousness.
That's our society it would seem. Pour a little alcohol on a banked fire and it solves everything.
Someone dies and the little $hits get manslaughter.
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"Someone dies and the defendants get manslaughter"? Have you ever heard of a manslaughter case in which someone didn't die?
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I think manslaughter is the best charge. Even with the lesser charge these kids will not be the same when they get out. I feel for both families.
BTW - I am also a Buddhist.
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Cancel 2018. 3
<-- sched 2, MJ sched 1
i already said this earlier...yes, it is a felony
They will know what a real beating is all about and have a new respect for not bestowing violence on an unwilling and unsuspecting victim.
I know you are Buddhist.
Socrtease
Verified User
After reading California Penal Code 243 (d) it appears that the punch that knocks someone to the ground and causes them death, the battery can be charged as a felony. The thing is, I am still pretty certain that you could not be charged with even felony murder. Felony murder in California, California Penal Code 189 requires that the death be reasonably foreseeable.
California Penal Code 192 defines "manslaughter" as the unlawful killing of another person without malice.1 "Involuntary Manslaughter," which is the least serious variant of manslaughter, gets charged when the killing occurs:
1. in the commission of an unlawful act, not amounting to a felony, OR
2. by way of a lawful though dangerous act, that is done in an unlawful manner or without due caution or circumspection.
I guess the question is was the battery itself severe enough that without falling and hitting his head, would it have amounted to felony battery? Usually no. If the blow resulted in a broken jaw it COULD be charged as a felony but it also could be charged as a misdemeanor. If one blow resulted in a traumatic brain injury, then I think the argument is much stronger for felony battery.
Simple battery. California law defines battery... which is sometimes referred to as assault & battery... under Penal Code 242 PC. A California battery is simply this: any willful and unlawful touch that is harmful and/or offensive. The slightest touch can trigger a battery allegation if it is done in an angry or offensive manner. Like in every other state, assault is a separate crime from battery. Assault only requires that a person be put in fear of immediate harm or battery. If you draw back to punch someone but don't, you have committed Assault. Penal Code 240 PC. If you draw back and do hit someone, technically you have committed Assault and Battery but the assault is subsumed into the battery and you are only punished for the battery.
If I was the prosecutor in this case, and remember I have only EVER been a defense attorney, I would charge this as a felony, I might even charge it as felony murder, but give the jury the involuntary manslaughter as a lessor. It is weird that in California it could not be charged as Voluntary Manslaughter because that requires that the act be done during a quarrel or in heat of passion. That is not the case here. I would then offer a plea of Aggravated Battery and Involuntary Manslaughter with both sentences running consecutively and I would ask for maximum sentences on both. That would amount to 4 years for the involuntary manslaughter. I can't find the punishment for agg battery but I imagine it is another 2-4 sentence. I honestly don't think, with any competent defense you could get a felony murder out of this, and I am not sure that even if you did it would stand up on appeal. This is close one, close enough to charge it as severely as possible and let a jury work it out. It is not a stretch to call this murder.
California Penal Code 192 defines "manslaughter" as the unlawful killing of another person without malice.1 "Involuntary Manslaughter," which is the least serious variant of manslaughter, gets charged when the killing occurs:
1. in the commission of an unlawful act, not amounting to a felony, OR
2. by way of a lawful though dangerous act, that is done in an unlawful manner or without due caution or circumspection.
I guess the question is was the battery itself severe enough that without falling and hitting his head, would it have amounted to felony battery? Usually no. If the blow resulted in a broken jaw it COULD be charged as a felony but it also could be charged as a misdemeanor. If one blow resulted in a traumatic brain injury, then I think the argument is much stronger for felony battery.
Simple battery. California law defines battery... which is sometimes referred to as assault & battery... under Penal Code 242 PC. A California battery is simply this: any willful and unlawful touch that is harmful and/or offensive. The slightest touch can trigger a battery allegation if it is done in an angry or offensive manner. Like in every other state, assault is a separate crime from battery. Assault only requires that a person be put in fear of immediate harm or battery. If you draw back to punch someone but don't, you have committed Assault. Penal Code 240 PC. If you draw back and do hit someone, technically you have committed Assault and Battery but the assault is subsumed into the battery and you are only punished for the battery.
If I was the prosecutor in this case, and remember I have only EVER been a defense attorney, I would charge this as a felony, I might even charge it as felony murder, but give the jury the involuntary manslaughter as a lessor. It is weird that in California it could not be charged as Voluntary Manslaughter because that requires that the act be done during a quarrel or in heat of passion. That is not the case here. I would then offer a plea of Aggravated Battery and Involuntary Manslaughter with both sentences running consecutively and I would ask for maximum sentences on both. That would amount to 4 years for the involuntary manslaughter. I can't find the punishment for agg battery but I imagine it is another 2-4 sentence. I honestly don't think, with any competent defense you could get a felony murder out of this, and I am not sure that even if you did it would stand up on appeal. This is close one, close enough to charge it as severely as possible and let a jury work it out. It is not a stretch to call this murder.
Cancel 2018. 3
<-- sched 2, MJ sched 1
imo...the death is foreseeable...also, under PC 189....all other murders are second degree that don't fit the specific definition of first degree murders...also, i don't see how you wouldn't be able to convince a jury there was in fact malice...if implied malice is proved you get second degree murder...i agree that if i was the prosecutor i would definitely try the felony murder...
http://llr.lls.edu/volumes/v36-issue4/documents/6felonymurder.pdf
http://llr.lls.edu/volumes/v36-issue4/documents/6felonymurder.pdf
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Well, anyway, USA, they were not charged with manslaughter, so I don't know what you're going on about.
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If they are given a manslaughter charge they could be out in 3 or 4 years, which would obviously be far too short.
If they're charged with second degree murder they may never be let out, because governor's in California are very harsh on even second degree parole applicants (before Schwarzenegger the previous two governor's refused to even consider them).
Cancel 2018. 3
<-- sched 2, MJ sched 1
it was only davis
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I thought Wilson held the policy too? Whatever.
Realistically, I don't think future governor's are going to hold an extremely tight policy perpetually.
What were they charged with? And 3 to 4 years is too short, definitely.
Minister of Truth
Practically Perfect
Your mom.
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http://www.wklaw.com/areas-violent-crimes.html
If they were charged with voluntary manslaughter the maximum would be 11 years. If they were charged with involuntary manslaughter (which I believe would apply here if they went down this road if the hitting were considered a misdemeanor and there was no specific intent to kill) the maximum would be 4 years.
I'm not sure how early they could get off but it could be much less than that depending on how California's parole system works.
If they were charged with voluntary manslaughter the maximum would be 11 years. If they were charged with involuntary manslaughter (which I believe would apply here if they went down this road if the hitting were considered a misdemeanor and there was no specific intent to kill) the maximum would be 4 years.
I'm not sure how early they could get off but it could be much less than that depending on how California's parole system works.
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