Lent

Jarod said:
Just because I belive something exists, does not mean I belive that thing uses human reasoning or that I completly understand that thing. Sorry... you fail.
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A figment of man's imagination a) cannot reason and b) if you cannot accept that, you must accept that it can only reason to the extent its inventor could reason.
There is no other choice.
If you wish to try to make a debate out of nothing then you will find yourself talking to yourself.
It's not rocket science.
 
cawacko said:
And I don't know crap about religion but didn't God sacrafice his only son for our sins? If he was willing to sacrafice his son how do you say your understanding of God means we have to sacrafice nothing?
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the original reason for lent was a scarcity of food...and a need to reduce demand for scarce food stuffs
 
Banned said:
And how about the apes who actually communicate with sign language?

Not just do a trick for a treat.
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Yes they do. Some bonobos have been shown to have the intellect of a three year old human. How much reasoning would you expect from your three year old child? How much would be reasoning and how much would be the evolution of behaviour based on trial and error (trial and error that is not purpose led.)
A baby will put something in its mouth. If it tastes bad, the baby will repeat the action and repeat several times. Then it will put something else in its mouth. Is that reason as we understand reason? It may be use of a rudimentary intellect but it is hardly reason.
Whether Koko the female gorilla was using reason to communicate is still moot. But even if she did she was only one and therefore statistically insignificant. I wouldn't like to say how many Kokos would be statistically significant but I'm willing to wager an awful lot.
A mathematician and/or a scientist might throw more light on it.
 
Lowaicue said:
A figment of man's imagination a) cannot reason and b) if you cannot accept that, you must accept that it can only reason to the extent its inventor could reason.
There is no other choice.
If you wish to try to make a debate out of nothing then you will find yourself talking to yourself.
It's not rocket science.
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Lets accept your premise that God is made up, are you saying I cant make up something that can reason beyond human ability? Obviously I would not be able to understand its reasoning, but I could still belive it does reason beyond my capacity. Right?

Nuclear power plants really do exist, yet the way they operate is beyond my ability to understand.

The Sun exists, yet its size is beyond my ability to fathom.
 
The world of an adult is beyond the abilty of a child to understand, yet a child knows adults exist.
 
Jarod said:
I dont belive in that.

I dont belive in a specific individual God that takes a material form, or even a seperate individual form. I dont belive in a God that uses anything close to Human Reasoning.

God is the entirety of all existance, physical and non-physical. It goes beyond the bounds of the physical world.

All physical existance is simply God expressing itself in physical form for a temporary period of time.
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Cool. But do you have any evidence to support what you are saying?
 
Jarod said:
Lets accept your premise that God is made up, are you saying I cant make up something that can reason beyond human ability? Obviously I would not be able to understand its reasoning, but I could still belive it does reason beyond my capacity. Right?

Nuclear power plants really do exist, yet the way they operate is beyond my ability to understand.

The Sun exists, yet its size is beyond my ability to fathom.
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The 'premise' is not debatable. There can be no supernatural power. Think for just a moment and consider how you arrived at your position.
Simply substitute 'Cinderella' for each time you refer to god and re-read. Cinderella is a fairy story invented by man. We can certainly say, 'Cinderella thought for a moment, would she ever be permitted to leave her kitchen, would she ever meet the prince of her dreams?'
According to your logic Cinderella possessed reason. BUT Cinderella is made up! You dont need to be told that yet you do need to be told, and you find it difficult to accept, that a god you choose to believe in is also made up. Where is the problem?
The princess kissed the frog and he turned into a priest. Jesus touched the cripple and made him walk again. Same same. It is extremely frustrating to see people like you, obviously not completely stupid, yet unable to see the illogicality that drives all or part of their lives. No one can stop you believing in god or the tooth fairy or Cinderella, we can just point out how much you are missing and warn against spreading the nonsense as it works against man's progress and development.
 
Lowaicue said:
The 'premise' is not debatable. There can be no supernatural power. Think for just a moment and consider how you arrived at your position.
Simply substitute 'Cinderella' for each time you refer to god and re-read. Cinderella is a fairy story invented by man. We can certainly say, 'Cinderella thought for a moment, would she ever be permitted to leave her kitchen, would she ever meet the prince of her dreams?'
According to your logic Cinderella possessed reason. BUT Cinderella is made up! You dont need to be told that yet you do need to be told, and you find it difficult to accept, that a god you choose to believe in is also made up. Where is the problem?
The princess kissed the frog and he turned into a priest. Jesus touched the cripple and made him walk again. Same same. It is extremely frustrating to see people like you, obviously not completely stupid, yet unable to see the illogicality that drives all or part of their lives. No one can stop you believing in god or the tooth fairy or Cinderella, we can just point out how much you are missing and warn against spreading the nonsense as it works against man's progress and development.
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I do understand your position and have no evidence to prove it wrong. I don't believe god is a being such as Cinderella that's not the nature of what we call God. It's a shame humans even named God at all because it humanizes the concept . It's nothing more or less than the collective of everything.
 
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